Monday, January 6, 2014

Jahi McMath: Merely Dead, or Really Most Sincerely Dead?

GUEST ENTRY BY KZ!

This is a GUEST ENTRY by KZ. KZ is a CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist), who wrote the excellent series Dr. Murray's Death Drip Explained.  KZ weighs in on Jahi McMath's current condition. 

WARNING: Not for the faint of heart. Sprocket. 



UPDATE 1/9/14: Sprocket here. For answers to medical questions about Jahi's diagnosis and condition, I highly recommend the blog Stories from the trauma bay, written by a physician who blogs under the moniker Doc Bastard.  Doc Bastard has written several posts on the Jahi McMath case. (You can also find a link to his blog in T&T's blog list, on the right.)

Later today, I will working on a T&T "Quick Links" page for this case. Quick Links pages will gather in one place, links to all the stories written on T&T, the court documents, relevant news stories and links to twitter and Instagram pages. If you have a link to a story from an accredited news source, you can email it to me, or leave it in a comment.  

Also, if you have found T&T helpful in understanding what has truly happened in this case, please consider recommending T&T or a specific post on Google. Thank you!


 Jahi McMath
Source: Keep Jahi McMath on life support, Facebook page

Jahi McMath: Merely Dead, or Really Most Sincerely Dead?
By KZ
Last evening, January 5, 2014, the body of Jahi McMath was released by Children’s Hospital Oakland, to the Alameda County Coroner’s office. A Death Certificate has been initiated by the Alameda County Coroner, pending final completion upon the autopsy of Jahi Mc Math at a later time. The Coroner has released Jahi McMath’s body to the custody of her mother, Latasha Nailah Winkfield, for …..

Ongoing care and admission to another health care facility?

Or

Family religious and cultural rituals, including transportation of the body of their loved one, pending final disposition?

Your individual point of view on this tremendously tragic case will determine which of the above phrases you prefer to use to complete the first paragraph.

The family spokesperson, Jahi’s maternal uncle, the family attorney, and the cosmetologist spokesperson for the nonprofit, non-healthcare facility community center in New York (a building which rents space to therapists, not a licensed or regulated health care facility) offering to (care for vs temporarily store) Jahi’s body, continue to advance their agenda that Jahi is merely “brain damaged”, and as such, is entitled to state and federal protections. There is speculation by a number of web commentators and bloggers that this insistence on “brain damaged and disabled” versus brain dead, and “really most sincerely dead” is simply an attempt to preserve Jahi’s “aliveness” in preparation for a flurry of court actions designed at recovering monetary damages in excess of California’s pain and suffering caps. The uncle, in a recorded press conference referred to the number of $250,000 as “chump change”, and suggested that the more appropriate number is $30,000,000. Thirty million versus $250,000. Maybe it’s just me, but it is pretty unseemly to be tossing around these kind of numbers while Jahi is still alive. Or wait—is Jahi alive? Is Jahi dead?

The family took custody of Jahi’s body from the Coroner, and completed whatever process was requested to officially receive HER REMAINS. I can’t apologize for my use of caps there, because I thoroughly believe that the young teen with the bright smile died nearly 4 weeks ago. The last 3 ½ weeks has only been a painful and grotesque battle over who gets her body, and when. A contentious stalemate between a world class health care facility, and a family in the throes of anger, denial, and grief.

For the last 3 weeks, we have all read and heard about what brain death is, and what this family believes it isn’t. We have seen grainy examples of diagnostic tests, and discussions of “electrical silence” from EEG’s, and failed apnea tests. We have marveled and recoiled at discussions of spinal reflexes, and forced ourselves to watch videos of unfortunate souls with brain death who demonstrate Lazarus sign.

But for just a few paragraphs, I’d like to talk about another difficult set of facts that apparently none of the mainstream news reporters are willing to research and discuss. Possibly out of respect and deference to a grieving family, or for some other unknown motivation, I don’t know. Let’s talk about an anatomical certainty for a just a minute.

I am convinced most who read here are well informed about the process for determining brain death, the bedside tests and assessments, as well as the electroencephalograms and SPECT radionuclide perfusion tests demonstrating complete lack of blood flow in brain death.

Approximately 3-5 days after a determination of brain death, a process called “autolysis” begins in the brain dead individual’s brain. To put this in very blunt terms, the non-perfused brain begins to soften and liquefy, coagulating into a congealed mass of dead tissue, enzymes, and other products of cell death.

That is a miserable, grievous paragraph to write when you are discussing what has happened inside the skull of a much loved, shy 13 year old young girl with a beautiful smile, but this is what happens in EVERY case of brain death that is prolonged by mechanical ventilation. EVERY case. And I meant to use caps there for emphasis. The absence of blood flow cannot be reversed. Ever. By any means. There is no “waiting for the swelling to go down.” Most of the studies cited below are for populations of patients brain dead an average of less than 99 hours (4 days). Jahi Mc Math has been brain dead for at least 24 days, as of January 6, 2014.

From: The Paradox of Brain Death, by Pauline W. Chen
While normal brain tissue is firm, a brain that has been dead shows progressive autolysis, a form of biological self-destruction. “It will almost be like soup,” Dr. Harry Vinters, chief of neuropathology at UCLA, recently explained to me. He is the co-author of a major textbook on the pathology of the brain and has performed almost a hundred autopsies on the brain-dead. “It really depends on how long they have been on the ventilator. If they have been on the ventilator for two days, then the brain is grey and softened. But if, for example, a family has had difficulty deciding what they want to do and the patient has been kept on the ventilator for two to three weeks, then there’s tremendous autolysis. The brain gets very swollen, soft, and mushy.” The nerve tissue can become so friable that fragments of brain from the head will break off and float down the spinal column. “Sometimes I’ll be looking at a slide of the spinal cord,” says Vinters, “and I’ll see fragments of cerebellum floating around in the specimen.”
There is no rehabilitation for a liquefied and congealed brain. There is no hope for this individual to ever have any improvement whatsoever. Time and “nutrition” will not heal her brain, because in effect, she has no brain. The organ that was her brain is gone, completely and utterly gone. It is as if she has been “functionally decapitated”. This is what happens in brain death. This is the hard, sad, miserable, awful, grotesque TRUTH about what brain death is.  This is why brain death IS death, and is recognized as death, as certain as cardiac death. No amount of wishing, magical thinking, hope or prayers will bring back Jahi McMath. Jahi does not need our prayers—but her family does.

References:

Wikipedia: Single-photon emission computed tomography

Nuc Med Resource: Brain Death Scan

NCBI: Stability and Autolysis of Cortical Neurons in Post-Mortem Adult Rat Brains

NCBI: On the Autolysis of Brain Tissue

SPRINGER: Autolysis of the granular layer of the cerebellar cortex in brain death

RESEARCH GATE: A clinico-neuropathological study on brain death

VQR: The Paradox of Brain Death

305 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 305 of 305   Newer›   Newest»
Coconut said...

Here's another one "claiming" she had the tubes put in place...

http://web.stagram.com/tag/jahi/

Does this now mean it is ethical and accepted by (Cal- or other state) laws to operate on a corpse that has been issued with a death certificate?

Anonymous said...

First off, this is the most informative site I have encountered on this saga. I might also add that I have no dispute with either the definition of brain death nor the consensus of such from the examining physicians. But I have a question for those of you in the medical community that perhaps you clarify for me. Having done a little online research for organ donation I've come across several articles sighting the physical reaction of brain dead cadavers during organ retrieval. Now I am not referring to the spinal reflex but a situation of increased heart rate and rising blood pressure during the incision being made without anesthesia. From reading the comments on this blog I was under the impression that those reflexes were controlled by the brain stem which would now be dead. Certain comments were made that these reflexes were monitored by artificial means. Again, just trying to understand this.

Sprocket said...

Anon @3:58 PM

The automatic reflexes that Jahi allegedly has been making are called the Lazarus Effect. CaliGirl9 wrote about that in her first article.

Those involuntary movements are caused by the spinal cord, not the brain stem. That's my understanding.

Anonymous said...

Anon @3:58 PM

In normal humans, the reflex mechanism is 'gated' at the spinal column. Ever notice that you've reacted to stimuli (say, a hot stove) before you actually deduce what caused it? Same mechanism.

Coconut said...

Just wondering... and some food for thought lol:

What if they have "donated" her body to a (Catholic) university medical center, like Loma Linda, or Scripps Mercy in San Diego?

Would that not allow and clear the legal path for the medical interventions to take place within professional ethics, while abiding the law and without causing precedents?

Anonymous said...

What exactly happens to the body when a trach and g-tube are put in? Does it help preserve the outward physical appearance or keep organs functioning properly for a longer period than without them?

Em said...

So this guy says she is in NY
http://spectator.org/articles/57364/politics-language

Sprocket said...

Coconut:
I don't believe her body has been donated to science. JMHO. I don't think that would pave the way for what you speculated.

I'm sure some in the medical field will weigh in here in time, but it's my off the wall opinion that before ANY research facility did those things, it would be reviewed by an ethics board. JMHO.

Anon @4:38 PM:
I hope some of our medical experts will answer you question for you.

Em:
I personally don't belive she is in NY. How did they get her to NY in the middle of the worst blizzard to hit the US? How? IMHO, she's not that far from the family.

Anonymous said...

Until I see a photo of this girl, I'm not believing that she's get any tubes in since her departure from CHO.

I still believe that she's in St. Louis at Cardinal Glennon under the care of Angela Clemente and Associates.\

Anonymous said...

If they actually attempted to put in tubes, I'll bet it wasn't pleasant when the made the insertion holes.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 9:20 p.m. on 1/7 -

You asked about the GAL appointment. Again, I'm going to add a standard disclaimer that nothing in this post is meant to be construed as legal advice, and should not be taken as such.

In California, a parent of a minor child is automatically considered to be the Guardian ad Litem of the child for litigation purposes. A minor lacks standing to sue on their own behalf, so a parent must act in their place and for their benefit.
No appointment by the court is necessary in this instance.

-VenomousFeminist

Anonymous said...

I find it ironic that a family "requesting privacy" is still using social media very much to their advantage. I wonder how quickly the donations dry up when people don't know where they are going.

Em said...

this is now mainstream Newshttp://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/brain-dead-teen-feeding-breathing-tubes-21470118

Anonymous said...

Once again, thank you for this blog. As someone who is a right to life advocate, I also understand what death is. My disagreement with those who are pro-abortion is when life begins, not when it ends. I suspect most people who oppose abortion are of like mind.

This case isn't about right to life; it's about guilt and an inability to face reality. It also appears to be about greed and, sad to say, basic ignorance. As some say, you can't cure stupid.

However, my belief is that this essentially ignorant group of people killed Jahi with their stupidity and are acting out of a weird sense of guilt. It's like little kids when it's been discovered they've done something wrong and figure if they deny it enough, their parent will go along.

The problem here are the opportunists like Dolan and Piers Morgan (I used to love that guy), who are capitalizing on the both the ignorance of this family and members of the public who fall into the can't fix stupid class.

Em said...

I am speechless

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536248/Her-healing-begins-today-Family-Jahi-McMath-say-teenager-finally-getting-nutrition-needs-declared-brain-dead-month-ago.html

Anonymous said...

She was released to her mother Sunday evening. NY had temperatures in the low 50's the following day. So if they were able to get her out either Sunday night or Monday morning she would have gotten in before the deep freeze and could possibly be in NY.

Anonymous said...

I find it hard to believe that she has had the feeding tube inserted - her gut is sloughing, per one of CHO's Dr's reports LAST week. I can't imagine what doing such surgery would be like.

The lawyer and the family have the best of interests to perpetuate the falsity of Jahi being alive, even if her heart finally stops, as that would allow them to claim unlimited medical expenses and punitive damages from (I'm sure) upcoming lawsuit, as well as continue the current donations. Pardon the expression, but they are shamelessly milking a "dead cow". Without independently verified facts, only the fools are taking at face value everything they say/post, etc.

Unknown said...

I find anything they say hard to beleive. The "Keep Jahi on life support" facebook page has a short and sweet update basicly informing that Jahi is stabalizing , getting better , something to that effect. I think they don't wantnthe donations to dry up.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if this is an ignorant question, but was Jahi "anesthetized" for the placement of these tubes? especially considering her family thinks she's so capable for healing, receiving nutrients etc; do they think she can feel pain?

Anonymous said...

As a non-medical person who is confused about brain death, this article really disturbs me. After reading this, would I allow the hospital to remove a vent if my loved one did not have a chance of recovery? Yes. Would I allow them to surgically remove their organs? No.

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/may/10-the-beating-heart-donors#.Us4LsJ5dVAI

Anonymous said...

I have been reading articles and comments for the last couple of weeks in regards to this innocent child Jahi. Has it every occurred to any of you supposedly brilliant bloggers that doctors can be wrong sometimes. As a matter of fact, there have been several proven cases where a team of doctors all collectively concluded that someone was brain dead and they were proven wrong!!! A doctor is not exempt from human error and something definitely went terribly wrong with the care of this little girl. Some of these post are offensive and frankly out of line. Why is it any of your business how this family choses to proceed with their family member? The way that family was treated at that hospital in Oakland was nothing short of inhumane. So willing to write off this child and her family. News Flash!!!! Those days are gone where you can assume that people who are not wealthy, or better yet who you deem to not be worthy of your respect or attention will allow you to determine their fate. For those of you who believe in God, then you must know that God s always in control and he will always have the final say on how long aniy of us live. Only God knows!!! Not your flawed doctors !!!!

Coconut said...

@ Sprocket

Thank you for your opinion.

Living in a country with different laws and culture, who (in their right mind) do you think would conduct such a procedure, if it is really the case?

Because some day it will come out probably...

DomesticGoddess said...

What the parents and their "compassionate" lawyer are doing in re-animating the dead girl whilst begging for money is grotesque and unholy. I am gobsmacked over how many ignorant people are gushing over them on the Facebook page. Have to believe the girl is rotting away right under the family's eyes, but they must keep up the ruse.

Anonymous said...

Ex-nurse here.

I'd like to think that the reports of a trach and GI tube being inserted are just ploys to keep the money flowing in.

Intestinal surgery under the best of conditions has a very high risk for infection. Add the already deteriorating condition of Jahi's gut (as told by the Chief at CHO in written testimony) and one wonders if there is a right-to-life physician obscene enough to perform the procedure?

If there is such a person, they should be chased down with torches and pitchforks, Frankenstein style.

Anonymous said...

I've enjoyed reading this blog and I am casual viewer with no medical/legal expertise. I'm just wondering why there isn't more legal action or child protective services being brought against the mother. She's essentially force feeding her deceased daugther's body. I know the judge declared the mother as guardian of her child, and responsible for any consequences that happen probably knowing that her body can't be sustained for much longer. Like everyone else though, I'm just having a hard time understanding why/how this is going on legally, morally, and personally. Even if someone licensed fitted her with the tubes, is there still anyway some authority could step in and end her unethical actions?

smalls777 said...

@g kuzma. Wow. That was incredibly nice of you. We as nurses do our jobs just for those simple thank yous. For every family that dehuminizes our care, someone like you can turn it all around with such nice sentiments. Thank you. And I'm happy you have had great nurses to take care of you

Anonymous said...

I just finished reading the documents on Scribd and this is the most outraged I have felt in the week I have been following this circus. It sounds like CHO bent over backwards to make the situation easier for Jahi's family to come to terms with. They had multiple family members sleeping over at the hospital, were given access to a private family room, were allowed relaxed visiting hours, and were provided with several religious and grief counselors.

And in case you are thinking these people are just plain ignorant about what happened to Jahi, CHO noted that they met with medical staff on numerous occasions and were given in-depth briefings on the medical science behind the her state.

Then, there's the Dr.'s statements about Jahi's deteriorating physical condition. What mother could NOT notice the change in her daughter's skin and muscles, and be shocked at the "sloughing" of her gut? I'm not a parent- but if my beloved mother's body was going through something like that, you can be damned sure I would give up any reservations I had in order to preserve her dignity and give her peace.

Until now I've been repressing my urge to pass judgment on the family. But, I truly don't understand why anyone would make a national debacle out of such a tragedy unless you had other motives.

smalls777 said...

Just saw on kron 4, jahi has received a trach and feeding tube. What is going on?? For all these comments about how unethical and legal this is, to how no md would do it, yet here we are.......

I'll look for a link to support what I just heard

Sprocket said...

Anon @ 7:01 PM
There has never been a case of correctly diagnosed brain death where the individual has woken up.

Although you may have read about some supposed cases those cases were situations where the individual was inaccurately diagnosed or prematurely diagnosed.

There has never been a case of diagnosed brain death, where the individual "woke up" after a month. It's been a month since Jahi was declared brain dead. (Well, 3 days short of a month, technically.)

Never.

At least five or six doctors, the last one, appointed by the court, with NO AFFILIATION to the hospital, diagnosed Jahi as brain dead.

I highly recommend reading the sworn statement by Dr. Heidi Flori (link at the top of the article) that was presented to the court as a filed motion, that outlines Jahi's condition as of Friday, January 3rd, 2014. It's pretty gruesome.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you are living in a fantasy land if you think all of these respected physicians are "wrong" about Jahi, and she is going to "wake up" next week. It isn't going to happen.

Sprocket said...

To everyone reporting about the trach and feeding tubes, and wondering what's going on.

I'll believe it when I see it reported in a court document, or from a representative of the mysterious medical facility giving a statement to the press on her condition.

Anonymous said...

CNN has a commenter claiming that the father of a child who was in the Recovery Room with her saw the family feeding her while the nurses were distracted. Anyone else see that?

Sprocket said...

Anon @ 8:46 PM
Can you remember the name of the show/commentator who was interviewing the eye-witness?

Anonymous said...

If Jahi really was responsive, and looking much better, etc, don't you think photos or videos would support that and further back all their accusations against CHO? That's what makes me think something's fishy. And the fundraising page is still open. They're keeping a tight lip on this "facility", and the doctors, and all these improvements to her current state, yet there isn't any proof. I can't believe some people are still donating, when there has been nothing proven. Oh well, their money, their choice.

As much as I am sick of reading about this on the news and giving them more attention, I am still curious what will happen. Thank you for this blog! Up until recently I had only been reading the Chronicle. This is much more in depth and interesting, and takes into account the bias perspectives.

Anonymous said...

Hamburger incident: It is just hearsay posted on the CNN online comment page. It was supposedly originally posted on an LA Times comments page but was deleted they say.

CaliGirl9 said...

Hi Coconut!
OMG Shades of “Baby Fae” and Loma Linda University! You are using some serious critical thinking skills! Are you crazy? No, I think what you are thinking about is within the realm of possibility! I wish I’d thought of it!

Anon @7:01
I sense your desperation in your words. Yeah, doctors make errors. But from what we are able to deduce from court papers, Jahi was attended by several physicians, at the minimum a pediatric critical care specialist (Heidersbach, who got the process of declaring the teen brain dead after her spinal reflexes disappeared on December 11. The Physician’s Declarations state he was her doctor the week of December 9, so I’m guessing he may have ran her code, at the minimum he provided her care post-code), the division chief of pediatric critical care (Dr. Williams, who swore in her affidavit that CHO followed all policies when diagnosing brain death, including a pair of EEGs on December 11 and 12) her pediatrician, her ENT, a pediatric neurologist from CHO (Shanahan), the medical director of CHO, Dr. Flori (who dictated an update as to the condition of Jahi’s body as of January 3, including the remark that the body had a bowel movement and intestinal tissue was in the bowel movement, from normal post-mortem deterioration of the intestines) and the head of pediatric neurology at Stanford (Fisher). A radiologist no doubt read the brain scans.

According to the hospital’s filing on December 20, three physicians independent of CHO were brought in by the family’s request (I cannot find names in the court papers I have). So now we are officially up to Drs. Heidersbach, Shanahan, Williams, Flori, and unnamed radiologist, the three outside specialists, and the court-ordered specialist, Dr. Fisher. By my count, that’s a minimum of 9 doctors either examining Jahi or looking at brain images/CT scan/radioneucleotide tests. Couple that with some no doubt very experienced nurses who are looking for any positive sign that there is life within the cranium. Can 9 doctors be wrong and at least 3 RNs a day be wrong—and remember, ANY legit objective, legit sign of life means she is probably PVS and not brain dead.

If you believe God is in control, what is taking Him so long? I’m sorry, but the God I give thanks to every night does not micromanage. Even the Catholic Church at the Vatican level accepts brain death as death. This bunch of rogue Catholics, at least according to Church teachings, are no better than divorced or pro-choice Catholics, forbidden to take communion because they defied and rejected the Church’s teachings.

Personally, unless we are dealing with a freakish “Baby Fae”-like situation at a research hospital, I hope every licensed person choosing to work on a deceased person in the hope of resurrecting her loses his or her license. I would never have risked my license, not for all of the money in the world. I will confess, though, that I hope whatever shyster doctor is operating and medicating a corpse does choose to publish what treatments he or she did, before he is called to the state medical licensing board.
Assertive Woman, Roar and fortygeek (and any other RNs I’ve missed), THANK YOU so much for your honest input. I am proud to call you sisters, even if I have chosen to let my license go because of my back injury. I may not be practicing, but I can still disseminate information and totally relate to everything you write! Please, feel free to answer any physiology questions you may be comfortable answering.

Coconut said...

Me again...

In view of the tweets that Dolan sent out (see link) how is it possible and out of respect for the general public, that the state or whatever authority that reigns in the US, allows this "show" to continue?

Suggesting that "Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and her health is improving from when she was taken from CHO..." is that not relaying the message (to those who desperately want to believe such crap) that there is hope and maybe miracles do happen?

How many people are maybe wondering, now or in the future, if they too should take the bodies of loved ones home or whatever, getting them hooked up, fed etc?

https://twitter.com/cbdlaw

Anyone any thoughts on that? Thank you!

g kuzma said...

Anon wrote:

"there have been several proven cases where a team of doctors all collectively concluded that someone was brain dead and they were proven wrong!!!"

Another blog that has been referenced here addresses this important issue that you raised, and a few other issues in your post. It has an odd name, but I found it very informative:

http://docbastard.blogspot.com/

"Docbastard" is a trauma M.D. He explains how Jahi's case differs from cases where people were reported brain dead and recovered. "Reported" is the key word - if they woke up, they weren't actually brain dead to begin with. But there are some important medical differences in this case that make it unlike those. The doctor explains it all very well.

I, too, believe in God, and I do not doubt that He can do miracles. But I have to agree with the poster above who says the miracle would have happened. I do not believe God expects us to artificially maintain deceased bodies indefinitely just to prove our faith in his ability to resurrect them.

Death is also a beautiful process. It can be difficult for those of us who still live, but for beloved Jahi who rejoined her Creator, well, I believe it is wondrous. In my Christian belief system, the good news here is that Jahi has already seen her creator smile upon her and welcome her with the warmest of embraces. She is free of ALL the difficulties that surrounded her here on earth. I'm happy for her, and I bet that IF the deceased are able to influence things on earth from beyond the grave, that Jahi will be helping her mother.

Of course none of that is "logical" or scientific. It's my spiritual belief system, and I believe it is consistent with the teachings of Christianity, to which I espouse.

Unknown said...

As much as I want to subject the family to scorn and ridicule, I think that once they jumped on this merry go around, they found it difficult to jump off.

It must be apparent that their daughter is "wasting away" in front of their eyes. But, because of beliefs, feelings or motivations beyond our comprehension they have held on to a belief in a true MIRACLE. Or, the shame in admitting that they were wrong, is too much to bare in which this horror will play until the bloody end. When a person or persons make a declaration, i.e. "my daughter is still alive" and be damned when all evidence points to the contrary, it is a difficult to pill to swallow to admit defeat. The family knows that this is a lost cause but, they are trying to remain face.

I feel as if we or "they" have stepped back in time where epilepsy were signs of being possessed by the devil or some other nonsense. In spite of all of our medical, technological advancements this attachment to physical body has taken an obsessive viewpoint.


Instead of cherishing the memories they have of Jehi as beautiful and cheerful 13 year old, their remembrances will now be replaced with the morbid, grotesque images of her slowly deteriorating and decomposing body before their eyes in excruciating detail.

This has never been a case of Lazarus rising from Hades as "we" have put such tales in the bin of fairytales and rubbish.

I cannot surmise the motivation of the family or the attorney other than a misguided belief in the super supernatural.

su·per·nat·u·ral [soo-per-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

I find this debacle curiously intriguing, if for no other reason to vehemently implore to my daughter as to not let this skin bag of mine, her mother, to be so debauched.

Where is the dignity for Jahi McMath?

Tanya said...

As an old RN I love this blog. It is the one place I have found that gives information not spin. I suddenly became wheelchair bound with limited upper extremity mobility 5 years ago. This is the first time I am glad I no longer can work. I never would have believed that anyone would actually place a feeding tube into this childs corpse.

Coconut said...

Hello CaliGirl9 and thank you for your reply

Reason I came up with that -to stay within feeding terms- is digesting all the info that has been available to the outside world...

- the brother stated she was transported by land only (I checked the flight logs (had nothing better to do) of Med Air llc and none came close to Oakland or LA)

- Dolan had said Sunday night: "she'll be in the location in appr. 10 hrs...

- Out of state transportation of a body that has a death certificate, would be complicated IMHO when reading the Ca H&S act and other transportation regulations...

- I doubt the NY - NB facility, it not having a license to deal with this (I presume) and think the lady is just joining in on the media roller coaster ride

- Catholic facilities (long term and with all necessary medical staff and equipment) that would be able to "care" for a body with an appr. driving time of 10 hrs or less...

- What licensed dr. - nurse - or institution would in their right mind want to "touch" this case?

- IMHO, but I could be wrong, if a corpse is "donated for science" as Sprocket called it, it could be used to train future doctors, no? It could also be (legally) used to experiment "the effects of nutrition and absorption of enteral feeding in brain dead "patients" (done in Ryad too...) by inserting the tubes... and continue medical "care" without risking any legal consequences

- Despite the abnormality of the case (understatement) the coroner had to stay within the laws too, the body was issued with a death certificate and a "disposition permit H&S act regulations" (Vital records) required by law and which states satisfactorily, what the family plans to do with the body... (Cali H&S act 7050-- and 7100-7117.1)
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmath-case-questions-answers-20140106,0,6567373.story#axzz2psY8WgBO

- The ambulance left with Alameda deputy's in tow... prob to ensure they would not take her for a joy-ride, excuse my sarcasm
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24852227/jahi-mcmath-leaves-childrens-hospital-oakland

So those were my thoughts when coming up with that post...





Anonymous said...

@anonymous 6:54pm

I wouldn't be overly concerned about bread dead patients "feeling" the pain of organ harvest. While the sensory neurons of the peripheral nervous system can still send "pain" messages to the spinal cord, there is no brain to perceive the pain. The somatosensory cortex is no longer "living" and can no longer cause perception of pain. I have a Master's in neuroscience but I have no medical training; I'm sure one of the kind nurses or doctors here could better explain the situation.

A good example would be the pain reflex. I touched the lip of a very hot pot while cooking dinner tonight. The pain sensors in my hand sent a message to my spinal cord, which sent a message to my muscles to jerk my hand away. The message also traveled up my spinal cord to my brain, telling it that I had burned my hand. Critically, my hand jerked away from the pot before I felt pain.

The reactions of brain dead patients to the incisions of organ harvest, such as increased blood pressure, are made in the absence of perception.

The article you provided does raise valid concerns over receiving a correct diagnosis of brain death. The patient who gasped at the end of the apnea test should have undergone further testing.

Anonymous said...

This has been reiterated so many times, but I must join in too. HOW IS THIS STILL GOING ON? I don't understand how legally they can get away with this at all. From the entitlement angle, people die from surgery everyday, and tragically people's children die. I just don't get what makes them so different, and able to carry their tragedy in this manner. I'm not trying to be insensitive because losing a child is almost incomprehensible. However, I don't get where the funds, resources, and legal standing come from to be able to keep her corpse and even feed it.

Anonymous said...

Does the decaying body release any toxins/gases that are harmful to living people?

CaliGirl9 said...

Coconut, are your ears burning? I was just ruminating about everything you wrote!

THIS IS ALL SPECULATION ON MY PART!

Even though Loma Linda is a Seventh Day Adventist hospital, they’ve done some pretty bizarre things there with the Baby Fae case in the early 1980s. Because I don’t believe anything that comes from this family or the attorney, why not mislead and claim it’s a Catholic hospital? What Catholic hospital in its right mind would go against the teachings of the Vatican? Pope John Paul II accepted the concept of brain death as final, actual go-to-God death. Why would a pious Catholic risk their immortal soul by taking part in this? You can’t get an abortion or a tubal ligation at many Catholic hospitals. Heck, I’m a bad Catholic and you couldn’t have gotten me involved in this circus for all the money in the world.

In the case of Baby Fae, the surgeon who operated on her claimed to not believe in evolution, so it didn’t matter if he chose a baboon or a chimp for the baby’s donor. Yep, a “man of science” denies evolution.

As for transport, I doubt it was terribly challenging, other than perhaps the ghastliness of it. Speaking from my own experience in taking medical transfers as an RN, I hopped on that ambulance with pages of doctor’s orders as to what to do if certain things came up, for example change in cardiac rhythm, increase in pain. But those orders came from doctors who had examined the patients being transferred. I presume Jahi’s body traveled without any orders other than “maintain IV and ventilator settings as set by CHO.”

Then again, NOTHNG has been done ethically correct in this case on the family or lawyer's side. The hospital has ethically outlined and followed the process in its policy and procedures to pronounce Jahi brain dead. All we have are the family’s word and the court papers that fill in some, but not all, blanks.

Could the family have accepted “free care” because a research hospital looks at this as a great teachable opportunity? As much as I hate to say it, yes.

Coconut said...

Hello again CaliGirl9!

That must be what they call "distance synchronicity" ...lol

With ref to you explaining about transportation, this is a body with a death certificate, would that not be different when taking cross-country or across different states? Could they "deviate" from regulations such as transporting a body across state lines? This would then mean that the issuing of the death certificate makes no sense...?

I am not at all familiar with the case you referred to, being outside of the US, but may read up some.

In the beginning of this case it interested me a lot as it helped me to understand what had happened to my sister, who was pronounced brain dead and the procedures of diagnosing and pulling the plug etc. was difficult for me to understand being at a distance of some 13,000 miles and not able to get back in time.

However now that it seems to be turning into some sort of "body-soap" with countless episodes, I find it more and more intriguing and just can't help wondering what the heck is going on.... and it even seems they (family and Dolan) are taking the US, world wide press and people from all over, for a ride...

I can't even begin to imagine how this will end... but meanwhile I try to figure out how on earth they can get away with it, medically and legally, to do what they did and are still doing today!

to be continued... lol


Anonymous said...

http://instagram.com/p/i7ElGwlAY7/#

Anonymous said...

I think the only reason the attorney is now saying she is "improving" is an attempt to cover his tracks from the statements that she was not going to make it when released from CHO. Kind of hard to keep your story straight when your clients tell the media she is looking better daily while at the very hospital you are fighting to get her out of it. Probably also a ploy to get some more donation money coming in. I feel if poor Jahi were making some miraculous recovery photos and videos would be all over Uncle's twitter and instragram.

Em said...

what ever happened to verifying sources? The media is reporting this supposed intubation and trach as fact! Nobody outside of the family has commented, there are no outside sources to confirm what this Uncle and Lawyer purport! How in the world can the news outlets "report" that Jahi is "improving"?? Im reminded of a book that kept me awake for many nights as kid, it was Stephen Kings Pet Semetary. And this whole horror show is like a chapter straight out of that. The classic line is " sometimes, dead is better".
Indeed.

Anonymous said...

this has been an interesting and informative site, but i can't take any more of this insanity. i just want to know how long a family keep a corpse in an "undisclosed" "facility". Is there NOT some other legal entity that can resolve this? somebody please dispose of the remains. Her siblings are going to be crazier than the parents ( Munchhausens) and grandma is the coldest looking sociopath ever seen.

Unknown said...

I have more questions than I do answers, but thought I would throw out a couple of my own experiences in nursing that make this situation clear as mud.

The media/family/lawyer state she has had a g-tube placed. As a nurse, I automatically think of a thick heavy gastric tube being inserted through an incision through the abdomen directly into the stomach. I have 10+ years experience in surgery and endoscopy and have only seen this done using a endoscope into the stomach to make sure it is done correctly. The family's home or whatever type of facility she's gone to most likely won't have this equipment.

What I suspect is that she didn't have this procedure, but more likely a nasogastric tube placed which is thinner and introduced through the nose, down the back of the throat into the stomach. Still, in a hospital, you need an x-ray after confirming it is isn't in a lung.

A tracheostomy is making an incision into the throat to place the breathing tube. This is very high risk surgery that takes place in the OR. I just can't see this being done anywhere but a hospital....unless of course you think about First Aid classes that teach you you can take apart a pen and jab in the neck to make a hole to breathe out of.

Like I said, all this does is raise more questions for me. If her GI system has not had any nutrition for 3+weeks and she didn't have any bowel sounds per Dr. Fiori's report, then anything put through her feeding tube into the stomach will probably just stay there and not be digested or absorbed. The physicians at CHO know this and that's why they didn't do it in the first place, in addition to all the other reasons why you don't perform life sustaining procedures to a corpse. I think when Dr. Fiori was saying that these procedures would cause more harm then good, that's what she was referring to. Also, as mentioned before, the risk of infection.

These are complicated procedures we're talking about here. I'd like to know how they are paying for this considering there is no insurance at this point. I'm sure what we are being told has been vamped up to make us think she is being cared for by medical professionals, but I doubt it.

Anyone who disagrees with me or finds something I've said as inaccurate, please let me know! Would love to hear from you!

Sprocket said...

An Anon posted this link to a web site that asks similar questions that we've been asking here. I've not included the quoted text.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16305045-new-statement-allegations-raise-more-questions-about-true-condition-of-brain-dead-teen

Sprocket said...

Anon @ 2:15 AM:

The Instagram link you provided, do we know for "certain" that is a relative of Jahi?

Thanks!

All we have are family /attorney sources that this procedure has been done. No independent sources that the surgeries happened.

This story is getting crazier by the minute!

Anonymous said...

Amy Baker - I am not disagreeing with anything you said. I just want to add my two cents worth of information.

In 2010, my husband was unconscious and ventilated. After about 10 days, he was trached and a feeding tube (PEG)placed in his stomach, Both were done at bedside (not in an OR) at the same time. - Deb

Anonymous said...

Dear Guest writer of this column. You are very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you consider writing a petition asking our government officals to have this abomination be investigated and stopped??

Sprocket said...

Amy Baker:
Thank you for that information.

Anon @9:22 AM:
KZ has a full time job as a CRNA.

You have to understand that all we have, is information from the family /attorney making statements /allegations as to Jahi's current "care."

We do NOT, I repeat WE DO NOT have any independent sources as to:

1. Where Jahi is
2. What her current condition is
3. What procedures have actually occurred after being declared brain dead.

I'm sure once that information comes out (from independent sources), there will be someone out there, questioning the medical ethics of the care facility.

Sometime later today, I will start building a "Quick Links" page for this case that I will ask for our reader's help with.

Thank you everyone, for stopping by and reading T&T.

Unknown said...

Deb,
Thank you for your reply!

We did take equipment and endoscopes to the ICU to do those procedures rather than in the OR, but still in the hospital rather than done in any type of long term facility

Anonymous said...

I know HIPAA is applicable for 50 years from the day of death (and obviously while alive). But since Jahi is "dead" would HIPAA still apply- meaning would the employees of the "facility" treating her still be bound to silence/privacy? I just think its strange that no one has seen the mother, or step father, etc. I would have imagined reported "sightings" considering the press this has gotten, or someone working at the facility would disagree and leak info. And yes, I feel gross that I even want this information.. but I do. I worry that they really might be stuck watching her deteriorate but refuse to admit they were wrong, and instead work to build up a case against the hospital, if for no other reason than spite. I am also curious, legally, if this goes to court and the hospital is found to have done nothing wrong- or maybe even determined the family did something wrong--- can the hospital then sue for slander?

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 2:45

"and did not provide an independent MD to confirm diagnosis because the MD's they used were still in 'relationship' with CHO."

The court did order an independent evaluation and a Dr not affiliated with CHO did perform. He agreed with the CHO docs, that she's brain dead.

5-6 Drs have all stated the same thing.

Sprocket said...

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on the web. :D

My understanding is, CHO CAN NOT violate HIPPA without a release from the family. End of story.

It doesn't matter that Jahi has been declared brain dead and released from their facility.

The only way around that, that I am aware of, (and this is just my humble opinion /based on my experience following criminal trials) is through a law suit of some kind (criminal, civil in state or federal court), and the medical records are subpoenaed by one side or the other.

Even though medical records can be subpoenaed, a judge must still decide, based on legal motions /briefs arguing for their release to the requesting side.

Even after those documents are potentially released to the requesting side, the judge can still seal those documents from the public until such time as a trial.

If there are legal eagles out there that have more accurate information than me, please contribute.

Anonymous said...

Hi--I know CHO cannot comment, and that documents are only availble through court order from while she was alive/treated by CHO. I meant now that she is "dead" does HIPAA apply -- Would the new facility (if one exists) be bound by HIPAA privacy laws on a dead girl?
-DH

Sprocket said...

Anon @ 11:15 AM:

I don't know the answer to your question.

IF, IF, IF, HIPPA does not protect Jahi's body, in the facility where her body currently rests, (I believe it does regardless that she had been declared brain dead) I would imagine that the family made sure there were confidentially agreements in place before her transfer.

Just My Humble Opinion, based on what I know about the case so far.

Anonymous said...

FYI I found the answer--the protection of a person's privacy extends indefinitely, even after death. When someone dies, control over his or her estate passes either to a family member or another executor. The power to make decisions related to medical privacy -- including the ability to give permission for information-sharing under HIPAA -- is transferred as well.

dr.a said...

Somebody probably has shared this but here is the CNN link to the "Brain dead teen improving..." article. In it, Dolan states that the trach and g-tube were placed

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/08/health/jahi-mcmath-update/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Unknown said...

I am curious about how closely Jahi's
Physician's at CHO are following this. I can imange they and the attorney's are watching this spectacle very closely. Afterall they know all the details of Jahi's death/ condition.

CaliGirl9 said...

I have a feeling that the "rejoicing" over improvement manifests only in lab work. The cruel fact is that the careful balancing of hormones and drugs to keep a brain-dead body going takes lots of lab work, careful physician assessment, and knowledgable, responsive nurses. We can therefore deduce she's not in a regular extended care facility. Most do not have the lab/respiratory therapy facilities for frequent assessments, nor do most have those types of drugs lying around. Most extended care facilities are staffed by mostly LVNs and nurses' aides.

Nothing is going to bring her brain back to life. Nothing, nada. Not all the medications in the world, not all the pureed hamburgers shoved in a gastrostomy tube, nothing.

Sprocket said...

Anonymous who just tried to leave a comment at 3:22 PM:

I thank you for your kind words about T&T and the service it provides to our readers.

However, I cannot publish your comment that gives information to suggest finding on Google where the family lives and following them.

I say, let the tabloid press do that.

Again, thank you for your kinds words about what we try to do here.

Sprocket.

Anonymous said...

Neurologist again, here.
I agree with not encouraging people to physically haunt the family, but that suggestion about how to Google their address is still up at 3:43.

Again, thank you for all of the rational commentary and information.
And to all of the nurses commenting, I would like to express my extreme gratitude and respect for what you do. One cannot say that often enough.

Sprocket said...

I sincerely apologize. I thought I had deleted the comment. It's deleted now.

Sprocket

Anonymous said...

I stumbled on this blog while doing a Google search about this case. Excellent work from Sprocket, et al. and the commenters.
Forgive me if this has been covered already but my question is, where is the state of California in this? Where is the state Health Department? I would think they would be wanting to make absolutely sure that this deceased child isn't in a private residence somewhere. Would the Health Department be unable to take any action unless they are asked?
Again, excellent blog. You've been favorited.

smalls777 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sprocket said...

Anon @ 4:05 PM
Excellent question. It's unknown if the Health Dept. has contacted Dolan to find out where she is being held.

Until we get an independent source, verifying the body's location, as well as the family's claims of a gastric feeding tube and trach tube, it's all speculation at this point.

Assertive Woman, Roar:
The LA Times is repeating a statement Dolan made earlier this week, that was reported earlier by other news agencies.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Dolan made his statement before the family has made Instagram posts that she has the trach and gastric tubes.

Coconut said...

@Sprocket et al

With ref to the Instagram... if you look on the bottom left part of the pic you'll see @marvsmisses, which refers to this one:

http://instagram.com/marvsmisses

and further, in the brother's/uncle's account:

http://web.stagram.com/n/iamomari/

where marvsmisses replies in not very "chic or elegant" language... to the world


Coconut said...

What is VERY sad imho is the older sister, Jabria, tweeting that is dreams about Jahi waking up.... someone should really help these people!

https://twitter.com/briazaire

The sister is mentioned in a half December tweet by Bobby Schindler too:

https://twitter.com/BobbySSchindler/status/413054558139473920

I am somehow baffled by the fact that NO ONE followed that ambulance after the story having been in the news for more than 3 weeks... amazing!

smalls777 said...

@sprocket. Yeah I was ahead of myself. You are correct.

And thank you to all for reminding me that we don't have legitimate sources proving the trach and g tube. Just as they report having images proving her movement, improvement, responding and that she's alive. Yet they won't disclose it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/opinion-the-case-against-care-for-those-who-are-brain-dead-1.6767446

Finally. What a relief to read something accurate in a newspaper about this case.

Here is my favorite part:

"It is wrong for health care providers to treat someone who is dead. It is wrong for lawyers to ask judges to overrule medical expertise when it is doctors -- not jurists -- who know when death occurs. It is immoral in the extreme not to try to get Jahi's parents to come to terms with her death."

Thank you to Newsday for spelling it out so well.

Anonymous said...

An article by Bishop Finn. The Bishop is completely uninformed and it is quite sad...http://catholickey.org/2014/01/09/jahi-mcmath-sometimes-things-are-not-as-they-seem/

Anonymous said...

I just found this wonderful story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todays-mama/theres-a-second-tragedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html?ir=San+Francisco

smalls777 said...

Man, I feel like a creeper

Going through the uncles instagram, noticed he "checked in" or tagged his location as "cnn building." If you click the location, he is in Hollywood. I think this is presumed confirmation of her possibility of being in LA. If you look under the "thank you for your support" image.http://web.stagram.com/tag/jahi/

I know speculation has already tied them to the area and others have commented about this but didn't see if anyone noticed that he gave proof of his location, 3 days ago. Therefore giving a better idea about where this morbid facility may be.

//end creeper patrol

Anonymous said...

to all the RNs (and other medical people) that read this tread:

Please know that for each crazy family that treats you badly there are tens and hundreds of others that truly appreciate your hard work. We know that you have a very difficult job to do and that you often are just as emotionally touched by events as the family is - you are happy for us when the surgeries are successful and you grieve with us when things aren't going well.
I hope that all the nurses, doctors, technicians touched by Jahi's story negatively will remember that we, thousands of parents and relatives, are always and forever grateful for what you do.

- Mom of a child who spent 4 months in the ICU of children's hospital (3 of them on the vent). We got to come home and he is healthy now.

Coconut said...

I was checking out Angela Clemente's twitter, her name is mentioned on the website of the NB-New York facility as working with Dolan...

https://mobile.twitter.com/AngelaClemente0

At around 2:00 min in the video she is talking about how Jahi is being taking "care" off in the new facility (not NB)

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9384018&pid=null&section=null

Anonymous said...

This post is a great source of information and thanks so much for reporting it.

I too, like many of you have mentioned, am caught up in this story and can't seem to stop looking up information about it. I can't explain why, but it bothers me more than anything in the news has before. I certainly have never spent this much time on a single topic. I can't help reading all the posts from people on that Facebook page in morbid curiosity. Every once in awhile a new group of people come along to try to explain to everyone why it is not possible for her to wake up, and why if they really cared, they would encourage the family to let their girl go.

I personally am not religious, and do not believe in a God, but for the most part that doesn't seem to matter in this case. Many people who DO believe in God also believe the family should be letting this girl rest in peace. If God truly has the power all these people believe, then they should be able to remove the ventilator and she will survive.

It also makes me ill to read all the horrible things people are saying about members of the medical profession. Sometimes there are bad eggs, but overall these are people who dedicate their lives to helping others even with the possibility a single mistake can ruin their career and the life of someone else. I could not imaging having that weight on my shoulders, and yet they deal with it every day.

Anyway, I don't have anything to add, just wished to state my position without being told I must be a 'butcher at a organ donation clinic' or 'a doctor who makes mistakes' or 'CEO of Childrens Hospital of Oakland' just because I've been repeating all of the facts that are well known about this situation.

Cheers, Steph

Anonymous said...

Wow. Just....wow. She is improving? Perhaps that means that the remainder of her intestines have sloughed and there is no longer that mess to clean up.

Has anyone noticed that since Dolan stated she got the tubes and was "improving" he has not had another news conference? Nor have we heard from uncle Beast!

Google provides everything you need to know about how to perform a trach in "5 easy steps" http://www.wikihow.com/Perform-a-Tracheotomy and even has links to Youtube videos on how to insert a PEG (feeding tube) Is it possible that Winkfield and the beast did it themselves at home? Because it is impossible to believe a doctor would do it!

We have been spared dialog on that nutty mother trying to get someone to do a brain transplant-let's hope that's not next!

Really, to think of what those health care professionals at CHO were put through in this case! My sympathies shifted from the family to the ICU nurses and doctors weeks ago. I hope that they know that they went over and beyond the call of duty and are appreciated by all!

Sprocket said...

T&T Readers:

I have started a "Quick Links" page on the case. I only have the most basic information at this point, drawn from links in CaliGirl9 & KZ's stories and from the links all of you great readers have posted.

The link to the Jahi McMath page can be found in the top right of the blog, and also at the link below:

Jahi McMath Quick Links Page

If you have a reputable link with relevant information to the case, please email me the link and/or post it on an active story. Thank you!

Anonymous said...

Regarding the statement by Jahi's family that their badges were different than the badges given to family members of other patients...the type of badge issued depends on the status of the patient. Parents of patients who are in the hospital for a matter of a couple of days are given disposable ones with adhesive backs that can be adhered to clothing; for those children who are patients for longer periods of time their parents are issued more durable/permanent ones which can be clipped onto clothing. These are kept at the security desk and are given to the parents when they sign in, and the parents are supposed to return them to the security desk when they sign out after their visit.

Kimberly said...

Thank you for the informative articles. I'm not a medical or legal professional just the daughter of two RNs and find this case extremely disturbing. Legally, I'm shocked this family hasn't faced charges for abusing a corpse and possibly for fraud for the soliciting donations under potentially false pretenses. I do have a medical question--is it possible that her lungs will deteriorate to the point where the ventilator will no longer be effective in supporting her?

Em said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/What-to-do-after-the-brain-dies/articleshow/28638331.cms

Anonymous said...

Caring for the patient's family comes with the territory. I didn't go to school to be housekeeper, but providing support in the form of food, blankets, chairs, etc comes With the territory. Should families just bring in their own furniture, linens, etc? They are probably too distraught or didn't think of eating at the time. I'm a psychologist, (over 20 years) Im not a nurse... but I provide water, support, snacks, have blankets, pillows in my office because emergency assessments or 5150 situations can last hours and hours. Sometimes I can have huge families and extended families in our small office... COMPASSION & CARE COME IN VARIOUS FORMS AND CARING FOR THE PATIENT'S extended family is just part of their painful process. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but compassionate care is just whats in my heart... I always feel honored to support families in their time of need. I work with very poor families, NOT ONCE have these families ever acted entitled or demanding... they have always been grateful even in very tense situations... I did my best to always demonstrate compassion and gratitude and that's what I have always received in return... Instead of labeling these families as entitled, try examining your judgment, attitude and interpretation of these families... When u change the way you look at things... The things you look at... change!

Unknown said...

Thank you to everyone for such a great blog! This is my first time posting on a blog ever, I just couldn't help it in this case. I found an interesting article about a bishop in Missouri who was contacted by Dr. Bryne on new years day and I continue to wonder if that's where she was taken. Respect and love to all nurses out there.

Joanie

Anonymous said...

Also... of course various family's are going to challenge our clinical judgment! Of course they are going to fight for what they see is best for their loved one... they may be wrong, but they are naturally protecting their loved ones. I've had to remove kids from homes, place them in hospitals, make child abuse reports, criticize parenting Styles, attitudes, cultural beliefs, practices, feeding, every aspect of a family's essence has been under scrutiny... it's emotionally and physically exhausting but this is what happens when we are in the health care field... If I start to feel like a maid, it's time I take a break

Unknown said...

Having trouble posting, the article is "Jahi McMath: Sometimes things are not as They Seem" from catholickey.org.

Anonymous said...

Neurologist here again: nice article on brain death from the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/10/health/the-science-behind-brain-death.html?hp&_r=0

Anonymous said...

Fantastic insights here. I stumbled across this blog while searching this story and it has been the most informative by far.

From this article, Dolan's quote sounds like he's beginning to distance himself from this situation:

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_24880518/jahi-mcmath-medical-experts-say-organ-failure-inevitable

Coconut said...

Here is another fund raising campaign, but this one is NOT accepting donations..... hmmmm wonder why:

https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/1frg0/ab/42aIb0

Unknown said...

I should just stay away from Twitter. It's really giving me a headache. I've been accused of not knowing the law (I'm not a lawyer, but I can read) when I pointed out to someone that CA law does not allow maintenance of a deceased person on mechanical support. I posted the link to the health and safety code. The person replied that it doesn't say they HAVE to removed support. I think people are just in such deep denial as to believe that a beating heart means she's still alive, that no facts will move them from their entrenched position. Here's the link I posted: http://law.onecle.com/california/health/1254.4.html

Sprocket said...

NCBI: The Concept of Brain Death Did Not Evolve to Benefit Organ Transplants

I"m so happy one of T&T's readers sent me this link. This claim has been circulating around and I'm happy to see that an analysis of the literature was done to shed light on this false claim.

This link has been added to the Jahi McMath Quick Links Page under the heading: RESOURCE LINKS.

Anonymous said...

If this has been covered anywhere, I've missed it....would the court agreement included any specific plan of followup, by anybody?

Sprocket said...

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I'm adding relevant links you find to the

Jahi McMath Quick Links Page.

I feel the case is in a holding pattern at the moment.

It could be weeks before we hear from an independent source where Jahi eventually ended up, and whether or not she did have the procedures that the family and attorney have claimed.

Sprocket said...

Anon @11:59 AM

I doubt it. The body was released to the mother via the coroner. I doubt the court had any involvement beyond that.

Anonymous said...

Very informative blog..

I really wonder if the personnel at the new facility really believes that Jahi has a chance to wake up.

After all, what they have to do to keep the corpse going must make it clear for everyone with a minimum medical knowledge that her brain including the brain stem is gone, and is gone for a month now without any signs of returning.

I wonder how those people deep down feel about their work (not able to voice their view of this of course) Must be an awful situation.

My guess is that this new "keeping corpses animated as long as possible" could very well become a new business model to earn top dollars from relatives that are unable to let go. And we might see many more soppy fundraising campaigns to pay for this "service". And they may very well find enough idiots to donate for this crap if the brain dead are cute little kiddies.

What a horrible prospect that thousands of dollars are thrown out of the window for corpses when many people in this world can not afford life saving treatments and die...

A very real zombi apocalypse of the medical system is under way. Has anyone of you read Pet Cemetry by Stephen King? How in that book the longing not to have to let go of beloved ones completely corrupts people and how they even prefer to live with strange zombies than let go? He was really right with at least the psychological aspect in the book.

I personally believe in reincarnation, and according to my faith (buddhism) the deceased who is no longer contained in the body very often is still lingering for a while, observing what is going on with their loved ones in the process of leaving this life. And that they find it disturbing if the beloved relatives are upset and don't want to let go. If this is really true, poor Jahi. I hope for a next life she finds a new home where she is not in the care of that sort of immature, greedy, slimy, hysteric nut cases. I also think that at least some of Jahi's relatives are in this purely for the money.

I have one question that some people might find a bit morbid. If the dead brain goes into autolysis and turns into goo, does this mass smell foul? Or doesn't it because the brain mass is still sterile.

And if her brain stem is shut down, does that mean her intestines are shut down too? I have read that after brain death the bordy didn't have any more bowel movements. Is digestion/intestines also controlled by the brain stem?
If so, what is the use of a gastic tube to put food in there?
And the family claims that the body was starved, didn't she get nutrients via IV automatically when she was hooked up to that machinery after the bleeding incident?

Thanks for anyone able to answer my questions!

Anonymous said...

So, with no followup....they can indefinitely simply not report anything further, and/or make any unverifiable claims, maybe for years/decades, with no accountability as to what is actually going on? If that's the case, then I predict that is exactly what will happen. The body will never be heard from again, with no further explanation.

Em said...

HOLY CRAP !!!!
This is the end all right here you should read this one sitting down:


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html

Anonymous said...

"The concept that whole brain death (irreversible loss of function of the cerebrum, cerebellum and brain stem) means the loss of integrated organic unity in a human being has been subjected to a powerful critique by neurologist Alan Shewmon.

Some physicians question whether we can be sure the entire brain is really dead in patients declared dead in the U.S. by “whole brain,” or in the U.K. by “brain stem,” criteria.

Neurological criteria are not sufficient for declaration of death when an intact cardio-respiratory system is functioning.

These criteria test for the absence of some specific brain reflexes. Functions of the brain that are not considered are temperature control, blood pressure, cardiac rate and salt and water balance. When a patient is declared brain dead, these functions are not only still present, but also frequently active.

There is no consensus on diagnostic criteria for brain death. They are the subject of intense international debate. Various sets of neurological criteria for the diagnosis of brain death are used. A person could be diagnosed as brain dead if one set is used and not be diagnosed as brain dead if another is used.

A diagnosis of death by neurological criteria is theory, not scientific fact. Also, irreversibility of neurological function is a prognosis, not a medically observable fact. There is also evidence of poor compliance with accepted guidelines of brain death.

Utilitarian rationale:

Brain death can be used for purely utilitarian purposes. In 2005, Dr. Robert Spaemann, a former philosopher at the University of Munich, told the Pontifical Academy of Sciences that the brain death approach to defining death reflects a new set of priorities

It was no longer the interest of the dying to avoid being declared “dead” prematurely, but the community’s interest in declaring a dying person dead as soon as possible.

Two reasons are given:

1) guaranteeing legal immunity for discontinuing life-prolonging measures that would constitute a financial and personal burden for family members and society alike, and
2) collecting vital organs for the purpose of saving the lives of other human beings by transplantation.

The goal is to move to a society where people see organ donation as a social responsibility and where donating organs would be accepted as a normal part of dying".

Anonymous said...

At this point it seems all we can do is hope that cardiac death occurs soon so that this child can have rest.
I feel so badly for the staff at CHO that have been involved in this. I am only a Medical Assistant but I have worked with nurses and NP's for years and I have nothing but respect for them and what they do, every day, every hour that they are on the job. Actually, they are always on the job. A nurse doesn't stop being a nurse when he/she clocks out at the end of a shift.
This whole sad affair has to be demoralizing for those folks. I hope they know that most of us are sending the good thoughts to them and hoping that this situation won't affect how they see their role in health care in the future.

By the way, the cynic in me says look for the Lifetime movie about this in a few months...

Unknown said...

@ Em

The link you gave gave a access denied message, probaley it was removed. What did it say? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Sprocket said...

The comments on this story are now closed. Please continue the conversation on the new story below:

Jahi McMath: A Body in Limbo

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 305 of 305   Newer› Newest»