Cameron Brown Retrial: Day Four

UPDATED!
Thursday, July 30th, 2009

Prosecution Witnesses:

#7 Saad Omar (hiker at Portuguese Point who observed the defendant and the victim hiking; testimony complete)
#8 Jeremy William Simmons (Sacred Cove visitor who loaned the defendant his cell phone to call 911; testimony complete)
#9 James Witherow (hiker at the scene who saw the victim and defendant on the hillside paved road; testimony complete)
#10 Richard Barber (motorist who observed victim and defendant walking on Palos Verdes Drive South; testimony complete)
#11 Captain Fred Curcio, Jr. (LA Co Firefighter Lt., supervisor at the scene, first responder; testimony complete)
#12 Victor Rosenthal (LA Co. Firefighter specialist; one of the first responders, paramedic but working truck detail that day; testimony complete)
#13 Jessica Paige Brothers (LA Co Sheriff Sgt. at scene; testimony incomplete)



We are in a rush to get out of the house. I forgot to buy notebooks on the way home and we have to stop at Walgreen's on the way to the train so I can get a few more notebooks.

Last night, I went to the Internet to look at satellite views of the terrain. All of the descriptions became clear to me. On the way to the train, I call donchais on the phone and I tell her how to get to see the satellite views of the area. I discuss with her my thoughts on the witnesses I've heard so far.

At 9 am inside 107 Pastor is passing sentence on another defendant. He is receiving 10 years and it's his second felony. There's hardly anyone in the courtroom. The defendant's wife, Patty is not here but her brother Ted is. There is an attractive young blond-haired woman in the courtroom that doesn't appear to be associated with the defendant's supporters or the mother's supporters. She's been in the courtroom off and on several times. I wonder who she is.

Judge Pastor addresses Ted, Patty's brother. Yesterday he was nodding off in his seat again. The bailiff had to comment to him. So that's what that was about yesterday. Pastor wants none of that in his courtroom.

Ted addresses the Judge. He states that he broke his nose and his sinuses are blocked and he felt he was getting drowsy so he stepped out. He also said he has a tendency to snore when he starts to fall asleep.

9:11 am: Pastor waits on the bench. This is different from Fidler who rarely, if ever, waited on the bench. He would always retire to his chambers until everything was ready for him.

Pastor addresses Detective Leslie. "I got an email from (?). You were in Lancaster?" Detective Leslie replies that he is on call with that case in Lancaster, and the case is still ongoing.

Cameron Brown has not been brought into the courtroom yet. I see that one of Sarah Key-Marer's friends is here.

9:15 am: Pat Harris enters the courtroom from the little jail room off to the side by the bailiff's desk. Harris asks Judge Pastor for two minutes before the jury is brought in.

Judge Pastor, looking at the clock replies, "That's about it." Brown isn't brought into the courtroom quickly enough so at 9:16 am, Pastor tells Harris he's going to bring in the jury.

Saad Omar is still on the stand, under cross.

Harris puts up a photo, the people's #82, and Judge Pastor leaves the bench and goes back to that same spot in the jury box.

9:20 am: Sarah Key-Marer and her friends quietly enter the courtroom. Harris is going over with the witness what can be seen from the road above. Harris asks the witness if he knows how many homes are on the hills above Inspiration Point. The witness thinks there are about five houses above it.

Another photo is now presented, an enlarged photo of Sacred Cove between the two points, a nude beach.

CH: From Sacred Cove, you can see Inspiration Point?

SO: You can see the sides but not the top.

PH: Is it your testimony that you can't see the top of the Inspiration Point form Sacred Cove?

Harris goes over the last area the witness testified that he saw the man and little girl walking along.

SO: The far end of Portuguese Point.

PH: You did not see them head towards Palos Verdes Road?

The witness verifies that once can not get around Portuguese Point on the beach level. Harris puts up on the bulletin board people's exhibit #6. Harris get the witness to verify his testimony under direct of where he saw Mr. Brown and his daughter walking before.

SO: The paved road.

PH: That part of the trail is actually going downward, (correct?)? [...] (Path) about 2 feet wide (at that point). [...] It's NOT a treacherous path and then they got on the paved road?

SO: (Pointing to an area in the photo) From the beach to his point, it's steep.

PH: Would you consider it treacherous or dangerous?

SO: Not for me. But your someone younger, maybe.

PH: There's a section that you saw them walking that is flat, and it's not treacherous? (I believe Harris is pointing to an area in photographs.)

SO: Not that part.

Harris puts up people's exhibit #4 and asks the witness about a dirt path in the photo. (IIRC, it's the photo of the trail head beside the Abalone Cove parking lot.)

PH: Is that the path you saw them on?

SO: No.

PH: Is that similar to the path you saw them on?

SO: No. That one's wider.

Now going over Photo D in #4 exhibit. Harris asks the witness where in the photo that he has seen children. Omar points to an area he calls a park.

Harris puts up people's #7, photos taken on his second visit to Portuguese Point with Detective Leslie and DDA Hum. The witness states that the fence around the point comes up to his chest area.

PH: (Pointing t a specific point in the photo) There's an area of the fence where a child could climb under?

SO: They'd have to crawl under.

PH: They could crawl through the center area?

SO: Well, I guess if no one was watching.

The fence rail is an open, horizontal western style type.

The witness states he parked in the parking lot and paid $5.00. He hiked from the parking lot to Portuguese Point.

PH: What is the distance in your estimation from the parking loot to Portuguese Point?

SO: Maybe 1/2 mile?

PH: How long (would it take to traverse that distance)?

SO: Depends on how fast. Twenty, thirty minutes.

PH: It's your testimony you were there that day to read a book?

SO: Yes.

PH: Sat under a tree?

SO: Yes.

PH: From where you sat, you couldn't see the nude beach?

SO: Yes

(I believe he means that yes, he could see the nude beach.)

PH: There are a lot of trees around that point?

SO: Just a few; not many.

Harris asks him what he remembers about the people on the nude beach and how many.

PH: You testified prior trial there were four to five feet between Mr. Brown and his daughter. [...] Do you recall you testimony in prior proceeding it would take about 2 seconds to catch up that distance?

SO: I don't remember.

PH: How long do you think it would take a child to catch up that distance?

SO: Five to ten seconds.

PH: Do you remember testifying in a prior proceeding [...] they stopped and she would catch up?

SO: Yes.

I believe Harris points to another area on a photo.

PH: This wasn't where she was twenty feet behind?

SO: No.

PH: She was four to five feet behind?

SO: Yes.

PH: Your testimony that it was your impression she was tired?

SO: Yes.

PH: She wasn't crying?

SO: No.

PH: She wasn't having a tantrum?

SO: No.

PH: Did she sit down to rest?

SO: No.

PH: Did you see her go over to lean on the fence?

SO: No. She didn't get to the fence.

PH: So, it's not from anything she did, it's just your thought?

SO: It's just from my experience with my child and how he looks when he's tired [...] and the way that she was walking.

Harris asks questions about where (on Portuguese Point) he goes to read.

PH: You go because it's a place of breathtaking beauty?

SO: One of, yes.

PH: And this is a beautiful place in all of Southern California? (That question is a bit of a stretch, Harris, but the witness agrees.)

SO: Yes.

PH: And this was a beautiful day?

SO: Yes.

PH: It wasn't cloudy?

SO: Yes.

Harris now confronts him on his testimony from a previous trial. Harris says, "Excuse me. Hearing." Harris states for Hum, page 621.

PH: You were specifically asked at the last trial about.... you testified that it would take a young child about two seconds to catch up to a six-foot tall man?

Harris asks him about the "scream" that he testified he heard.

PH: You got up, looked around, then maybe thought it was just a bird?

SO: Yes.

Cross is finished. There is no redirect from Hum.

The next witness is called. It's Jeremy William Simmons, a slender 30's looking young man. Judge pastor gives his standard instruction to the witness. This facial expressions and demeanor when he is talking directly to the next witness is very engaging.

Unfinished draft entry. Will be updated as soon as possible.
CH: Back in 2000, where were you working?

JWS: World of Wonder Productions. [...] It's an independent production company that produces television and film (projects).

Simmons states that he still works for this production company.

CH: Is that a nine to five job?

JWS: It's irregular. His work is on a project by project basis.

CH: Was that the same back then in 2000?

JWS: Yes.

CH: What city were you living in back in 2000?

JWS: Venice.

CH: Are you familiar with Sacred Cove in Rancho Palos Verdes, known as a nude beach?

Hum goes over the direction of the beach and the surrounding landmarks. From that beach, it's a south facing beach. West would be LAX. East would be Inspiration Point. The witness agrees. Sacred cove would be between Portuguese Point and Inspiration Point.

CH: In order to get to Sacred Cove, can you get to that from Palos Verdes Road?

JWS: There's a dirt trail to the beach. A foot path.

CH: (Is it a) flat path?

JWS: It's steep in sections.

CH: Is it a trail with switchbacks?

JWS: I don't know the correct number but it winds back and forth.

On November 8th, 2000, he went to Sacred Cove and parked in the Abalone Cove parking lot.

CH: How did you get to Sacred Cove?

JWS: I walked along the street, along San Pedro.[...] There's a, my recollection, there's a sort of shoulder as you get closer.

CH: This is on the ocean side?

JWS: (Correct, or yes.)

The witness went down the trail to the beach. Simmons states the last bit of the trail is steep. When he got to the beach, he set up close to the end of the trail on the beach. He went by himself. It was the afternoon, approximately 1:30 pm when he arrived. There were other people on the beach. Simmons doesn't recall how far (away?); there were other people there. There were approximately more in the range of five to ten people on the beach. The witness states he spread out a towel and pulled out a book. He was reading.

JWS: I heard a voice. Someone asking for a phone, via the trail. [...] It was a male voice.

Hum asks him what did the man say.

JWS: Does anyone have a cell phone. [...] I didn't see; I just heard it.

From his position, he states he couldn't see anybody. Simmons states he had to move from his position. He had to move away from the cliff to see where the voice was coming from.

Hum asks him if he sees this person in the courtroom and the witness identifies the defendant.

CH: Where on the trail was he when you first saw him?

JWS: He was closer to the beach. [...] He asked for a cell phone. He said his daughter had fallen off a cliff. [...] I said I had a cell phone and would call 911.

CH: When first.... Did you sense anything in his voice?

JWS: I didn't trust what was happening at the immediate moment.

Because he had pointed to where... (Not sure who says this.)

The witness states he didn't trust the situation. He didn't understand the gravity, because his (Brown's) demeanor didn't match what was happening. I thought maybe she had sprained an ankle. [...] I didn't put it together until much later that someone had died.

CH: Did the defendant direct you to an area?

JWS: He pointed around to Inspiration Point. [...] I thought it was a setup. That he was going to steal my phone; my belongings.

The witness states that he was close to the side of Inspiration Point where it goes out into the sea. Simmons was at the beach level, and he went out to see if he could see anything. He went out on the rocky area to see what he could see.

CH: While you were doing this, was the defendant's demeanor the same?

JWS: Yes.

The witness states that the only way to get across that inlet would be to swim across it. One would have to walk around the trail, back up to the other side or swim.

JWS: I decided to head back. I didn't see anything.

CH: You didn't see anything from the rocks?

JWS: At that time, I didn't know or see that there was another inlet on the other side.

CH: Why didn't you decide to swim across?

JWS: I didn't understand what was happening. I didn't know if it was a setup to steal my stuff. The defendant was still there. [...] I don't remember 100% if he was on the cell phone when I had gotten back to (where the defendant was).

By that time, there were other people on the beach with the defendant and then he went back up the trail and he was gone. He got his cell phone back.

CH: He didn't ask you or anyone to come with him?

JWS: No, not that I recall. [...] There was a growing curiosity of what was happening on the beach. [...] At some point helicopters showed up and the day was over so I left. [...] Not much time had passed between the time the defendant left and I decided to leave.

The witness went back up the trial to leave. On that day the witness never went to the other side of Inspiration Point.

CH: When did you first realize the seriousness of the situation.

JWS: I remember, as the day went on, realized that something more serious happened and that she was seriously hurt. [...] It was a process, I think.

Hum tells the witness he's going to show him some photos. Several young students come into 107 and sit on the defense side of the room. I didn't see them come in; just noticed them there a minute ago.

It's an aerial photo, people's #12. The witness identifies the area in the photo of Inspiration Point. In a prior proceeding, his initials were placed in an area on the photo, and placed an X as to where he saw the defendant on the trial. The dotted line on the photo is the path he took to go look for the defendant's daughter.

From his viewpoint on the beach, he couldn't see the second inlet further to the east. Another group of four photos is presented. Photos of the Sacred Cove side of Inspiration Point. At the end of the trail going down to the beach, he marked his initials as to where he had set up his towel. Photo B is a land mass. The west side of Inspiration Point. Another red dotted line for the path that (the defendant?) took. Photo C. Dotted line showing the continuation of the path. Photo D. The inlet that from stopped him from traveling any farther east.

10:20 am: Hum is through with the photos and the easel comes down.

CH: When you are on the beach at Sacred Cove, can you see the west side of Inspiration Point? [...] Can you see the top?

JWS: No. Just the side. Can't see the top.

CH: Can you see the east side of Inspiration Point?

JWS: No.

I see Sarah Key-Marer looking down at her lap. I cannot tell if she is trying to keep from weeping.

JWS: My recollection was that he needed to call 911 to see what happened and I offered to go look.

The witness states he spoke to police within a week. The police contacted him.

CH: Did police tell you what to say? [...] Did they tell you how to describe his demeanor? [...] Did police ever tell you what to say? (No, no, no.)

10:25 am: Direct is over and cross begins. I don't note who crosses this witness but I believe it's still Harris.

PH: In the prior proceeding did anyone elver accuse you, to pressure you or asked you to change your story?

JWS: No.

PH: He didn't talk. Mr. Brown yelled?

JWS: Yes. [...] If he was talking I wouldn't have heard him. [...] There's waves, and wind noise.

Harris asks about his demeanor prior.

PH: His eyes were in fact wet? [...] At some point you did see his eyes wet?

The witness states that he was confused because he didn't know at first what was going on. It was also because he was hearing more about the story. I believe Pat Harris asks if he had red eyes or wet eyes, but I don't have the witnesses answer.

Simmons states he left the beach alone. NO one talked to him that day. He didn't know anyone else there that day. The witness states he doesn't recall if the defendant ran or walked (back up the hill).

PH: You basically said to investigators that he ran back up the hill?

The witness states he doesn't remember. I'm not positive but I believe the witness is shown his prior testimony.

JWS: If that's what I testified, then that's true. [...] Some people at the beach went up (the hill) but I don't know where they went. I don't know if they went with him (the defendant). [...] It made sense that he was on the 911 call because what would I say? [...] I told him I didn't see anything.

PH: Did they play the 911 tape?

JWS: I wasn't there when most of it (at the beach, when the defendant called). [...] Listening to the tape, it was pretty much sounded less frantic than I remember at the time. [...] When I first heard [...] I felt that I misjudged the initial reaction. [...] I reevaluated it afterwords.

Witness states he reevaluated the entire situation and understood the gravity of the situation.

The cross is finished. There's no redirect. It's 10:30 am and Judge Pastor excuses the jurors for break.

I was quite confused by the witnesses last statements. It wasn't clear to me after that cross what his reevaluation of the situation finally was. I see a spectator, a man come into 107 that I frequently saw at the Spector trial, and that I first saw years ago at the Blake trial. He doesn't stay long.

At the break, I observe Sarah and a friend speak to Detective Leslie. Afterwards, the detective and Harris chat. Harris sips from a diet coke can at the defense table. Hum walks around in the well, slowly pacing. I overhear one of Sarah's friends speak about going back home. She has an English accent, like Sarah and I make a guess that she is from England, maybe here on a visit. The well area is quiet, not like the bustle that would go on in Fidler's courtroom.

10:55 am: Sarah reenters the courtroom. I see Ted speaking to the pretty young blond-haired woman and I wonder if this is someone Ted knows.

Unedited, draft entry. To be continued.


10:57 am: Testimony resumes. The next witness is called. James Evert Witherow. Judge Pastor instructs him with his standard speech. Witherow is an older man who looks very fit.

Back in 2000, this Witherow lived in Long Beach. He lived in Palos Verdes until 1993.

CH: Were you familiar with Abalone Cove and Portuguese Point?

Witherow states he used to swim, hike and snorkel there. He hiked there for over 20 years but has not hiked there in the past year. He would hike in the area with others two to five days a week. He had certain routes he liked to take when he hiked. "Generally, I would take certain routes. I had three to five different routes," Witherow states. He is in fairly good shape and he still bikes a lot. The witness states he can hike fairly quickly. He walks at a pace of four to five miles per hour. (That's a pretty good pace. When I used to hike the Sherman Oaks hills, I did a 3.5 mile loop on surface streets in a little over an hour.)

The witness went hiking that day, November 8th, 2000. He saw helicopters later in the day. When he came to the area, he parked two blocks west in a Fire Station. It's the only place where there is public parking. It's west of the Abalone Cove parking lot. The witness clarifies that it's not a parking lot. It's street parking and he walks to San Pedro.

He would walk east in the direction of San Pedro on a path next to the road. He would then walk in a diagonal direction across the Abalone Cove parking lot heading towards the break in the fence where the trail head is at the edge of the lot. He took this path on 11/8. Using the path, he tent down the trail to the beach.

CH: There's a nursery school and playground?

JW: Yes, and a lifeguard station.

The witness describes the paved private road to the nursery school and where it intersects the trail. Witherow took the path directly to the left, towards Portuguese Point. The witness describes a (to me) complicated sounding trail route that he took. Approximately 50 yards down the private road that's black-topped, he then takes another trail at a knoll that goes down a gully to a creek bed. At that time (this) trail was fairly steep and it's been modified since then. (He was) in the creek bed pointing towards Portuguese Point and then he went onto the beach area.

The witness talks about from the bluff, there's an area you can go onto, if you know where to go. The height of the bluff is about 40 feet, about the height of a three story building.

The witness continued to hike towards Portuguese Point.

CH: Did you see anyone on the paved road?

JW: I saw two people. And adult and a child. [...] They were partway up the road (at the) next point and the adult was several feet in front of the child.

CH: What was the distance?

JW: They were maybe [...] eighteen to twenty feet. [...] From my distance it was hard to determine.

The witness remembers that from the clothing the adult was male. He just remembers that the clothing the child wore was light (colored).

The adult and child were headed to Portuguese Point. The witness took the same trail that the adult and child were on. When the witness got to the road, he couldn't see them. The road is steep and very narrow. It's used by lifeguards to access the station. Sometimes, the witness states he has seen lifeguards (drive?) come down that road. The witness took that road all the way to Portuguese Point.

The witness is asked to describe Portuguese Point.

JW: There's a dirt road encircling it. [...] The knoll, larger than a small knoll; it's a good climb. [...] The knoll is between Portuguese Point and Palos Verdes Road South.

On the point, the witness doesn't remember anybody. The witness states that he stopped at the rock wall area on the Inspiration Point side of Portuguese Point. From there, Witherow saw the two people on the walking trail between the two points, a trail along side Palos Verdes Road South. He saw them (at a point approximately) half way.

JW: They were on the Portuguese Point side of a big tree, the child was still twenty to twenty-five feet behind the adult. [...] They were headed towards Portuguese Point.

The witness went up the knoll and came back down and saw the two people on Inspiration Point. They were off the road at that point, and on towards Inspiration Point. The small child was behind.

CH: Could you tell how far behind?

JW: No. At that point it was too much distance.

The witness testifies that he has gone to that area over 20 years.

CH: Have you ever seen a child out in that (area? Inspiration Point?)?

JW: Not that I recall.

The witness is asked if he's ever gone out on Inspiration Point.

JW: I started t once time. It's not stable. It's very uncomfortable.

After his hike he went back to his car. He never saw the man or child again. He states that he wouldn't recognize them if they stood in front of him. Sometime later, the police contacted him. He told police what he saw. Photographs now come out and Pastor leaves the bench to stand right beside the jury box area, in the gallery aisle next to the wall.


People's #6. The witness identifies the paved road and verifies that those are his initials that were placed on the photo in a prior proceeding. He made the marks on the photo at the first trial. And the areas he testified about are now gone over in the photographs.

Photos, People's #5. Photos, People's #10, A-C. The witness identifies in these photos where he saw the man and the child on three separate occasions. 1. Road. 2. Ocean side of Portuguese Point, headed to Inspiration Point. 3. On ridge headed out towards Inspiration Point.

JW: On each occasion, the adult was in front.

The witness states he never saw the child running ahead.

Harris's co-counsel, Lara Veretsian gets up to perform the cross. From where I'm sitting, I can see the paper's she takes to the podium. I've not watched many trials, but I've never seen an attorney work from these types of notes before. She's working from a type of file where pages are bound together by a two hole metal binding clip, where lots of papers can be attached on top of each other. I can see that some of the pages appear to be interview statements, and some appear to be pages of testimony, probably from the prior trial, with lots of highlighter on the text.

This is just an observation of mine; it probably means nothing. The attorney's I've seen in action in the courtroom, work from a structured set of questions, or points, written down on unattached pages or on a legal notepad. Harris appears to work like this; so does Hum. With every witness Veretsian crosses, she is often going back and forth, flipping through these pages looking for something before and after her questions. To me, this method appeared to hold up her cross and didn't make it "flow."

Cross.

Witherow states that for more than 20 years he's hiked in the area two to five times a week. It's a beautiful area and a way to stay fit. He's been over the area hundreds of times, easily. On November 8th, 2000, he parked on the street near the Fire Station. He started hiking east toward Inspiration Point. Veretsian goes over his entire route from the beginning. He states he doesn't go down to the school area.

LV: Would you describe that area of the trail as "treacherous?" [...] And you've seen children on that trail?

JW: Yes. Dozens of times.

Where the nursery (road? is) he took a left south towards the point. He took a left parallel to the beach. Veretsian goes over some prosecution exhibit photos with the witness. She has the witness go through each of these photos again. (Is this to orient herself? It's puzzling to me.)

LV: Now the road. Would you describe that as a treacherous road?

JW: No.

LV: Have you seen children there?

JW: Rarely, but occasionally.

LV: (The little girl/child) was she crying?

JW: They were too far away (for me to see the child's face).

There are many questions now about Lauren by Veretsian.

LV: Was she screaming? [...] Was she yelling? [...] You testified today that Lauren was twenty feet behind (Brown). The in prior proceeding you testified the child was only a few feet.

JW: A few feet could be anything from ten to twenty.

LV: Do you remember speaking to an investigator?

JW: Is that the one at Torrance Police Station?

Veretsian approaches the witness with a document for him to review. (This is an interview he gave with a defense investigator.)

CH: I'd like to look at it too, your Honor.

11:45 am: The witness reads over the prior interview. Judge Pastor instruct him to read it to himself. Hum looks over the document.

LV: Now that you've had a chance to review with the defense investigator in 2004, that you said the child was five feet behind. [...] And that your memory at that time would be better than it is now? [...] Would you say that was accurate?

JW: I wouldn't swear to that. [...] She was definitely behind.

LV: You don't know if she was five feet or twenty feet?

JW: She was definitely behind.

LV: Did you see her sitting down?

JW: No.

LV: Did you see her leaning on a rock?

JW: No.

LV: They were walking at a normal pace?

JW: I was too far away to tell you what would be a "normal pace."

LV: Do you remember telling the investigator that you didn't notice anything out of the ordinary?

CH: Objection! Vague! Speculation!

JP: Sustained.

LV: Did you remember telling the investigator that the child didn't appear to be distressed or upset?

JW: Because I couldn't tell.

There's a question about the two points.

JW: Portuguese point is fairly stable even on the other side. Inspiration Point is not.

LV: Did you tell the investigator that because the cliff is generally unstable that what happened could easily have been an accident?

CH: Objection! Speculation!

JP: Sustained!

LV: Did you see them on Portuguese Point?

JW: No, I did not.

LV: Did you see a man on Portuguese Point sitting under a tree?

JW: I don't know.

LV: Did you see a man on Portuguese Point?

JW: I honestly don't know.

LV: How much of the top of Inspiration Point (can you see from...)?

JW: Depending on where you stand. [...] I've never seen anyone walk out there. [...] I don't know how much you can actually see. [...] The part I know you can see is from Palos Verdes Drive South and that "hillock." (?)

LV: Would you be able to see that person?

JW: Possibly, if you were looking in that direction. [...] It depends upon where you are.

Another question about what you can see.

CH: Objection! Vague.

JP: Sustained.

We've reached the noon hour and court is in recess.

1:15 pm: Back in the hallway on the 9th floor, I recognize some defense attorneys from a case that is being tried in Fidler's courtroom across the hall. Hum and his staff enter the hallway from the elevator bay. Hum shakes hands with someone he knows. Ted is sitting on an end bench. Sarah and several of her friends speak to Hum. Another friend of Sarah's is here that I don't think I've seen before and a word or two I overhear have an English accent.

1:26 pm: The doors are finally unlocked. Both counsel set up their case binders and notebooks.

1:28 pm: The bailiff gets the defendant out of the little jail waiting area.

Veretsian gets her photo exhibits set up. I note that Sarah is wear an nice gray pantsuit. I also notice her footwear, only because they are mary-janes, the same type of shoe that Lana Clarkson was wearing when she was murdered. Everyone is here except the jury. Pastor is on the bench waiting. It's so different to be in a courtroom where the judge starts exactly on time and makes everyone else be on time. As they bring in the jury, I try to take some notes as to what race/age they are.

#1. Young Asian man
#2. Older looking black man
#3. Middle aged Asian woman
#4. Older black man with a bit of a belly.
#5. Older white man
#6. Middle aged black woman
#7 White 40's looking doctor
#8
#9 Older gray haired man.

And that's as far as I got before testimony resumes.

I believe Veretsian asks him if he arrived at the fire station at approximately 2:15 in the afternoon.

JW: Mam! It was over nine years ago!

Veretsian has him review a document. I have in my notes, 1400, 1430. I believe she asks him if reviewing the documents would refresh his memory, or he states that he has reviewed his prior testimony. He states that the documents don't really refresh his memory but they would be more accurate.

LV: Is one of the ways to get to Sacred Cove from the parking lot over Portuguese Point?

JW: Yes, by that rock wall.

There is another question that I miss about a route/trail.

JW: It would be foolish, but you could. [...] It would be out of the way but yes, you could.

LV: There's another way to get to Inspiration Point and that's to just park on Palos Verdes Drive South?

JW: People would get ticketed. I've only seen police cars there.

All these areas he mentioned are closer to Inspiration Point than the parking lot.

LV: Each time you saw, (the man and little girl) was it that you observed them for a few seconds?

JW: Yes. You don't stare.

LV: If you totaled up all this observation, it would be less than a minute?

JW: One to two minutes.

LV: Did you see the entirety of their walk?

JW: I only saw them at the three times.

LV: The second time you observed them, did you see the child sit down at any point?

JW: No.

The defense tries to show that the walk/paths are not that difficult.

LV: Was she walking at a steady pace?

JW: I couldn't answer that.

LV: The third time you saw them, you never saw the child sit down?

JW: No. The only thing I ever saw her do is walk.

JP: Mr. Hum, redirect?

CH: No.

The defense pressed that he only saw them for "a few seconds."

The next witness is called. Richard Barber. Judge Pastor gives the witness his standard instruction.

Hum does the direct. I believe Hum will handle all the witnesses for the prosecution. When there are sidebars at the bench, Susan does not join Hum, Harris and Veretsian.

Back in November of 2000, the witness was living in Palos Verdes Estates. On Wednesday November 8th, 2000 between 12:30 and 2:30 in the afternoon he was driving on Palos Verdes Drive South. He owns an escrow company in Long Beach and he was coming back home. He was taking Palos Verdes Drive South. In the vicinity of Palos Verdes Drive South and Peppertree Street. When he's driving from his business, he's driving towards LAX.

(At around the Peppertree Street intersection) he saw a gentleman around five feet eleven inches tall and a toddler walking around twenty feet behind. They were on the ocean side of Palos Verdes Drive South. They were on the shoulder traveling in the opposite direction. The witness verifies the distance he saw the child from the man. Hum walks toward the witness and Barber tells Hum to stop when he reaches the distance he observed.

CH: Why did that catch your attention?

RB: I drive down that road pretty regularly and I never see an adult walking with a child that far apart.

I believe the witness states that he could tell the child was a young girl. A week later, there was a checkpoint set up on Palos Verdes Drive. (Ah! Although more questions are not asked, I'm gathering that this is how they found this witness. The sheriff's put up a checkpoint and stopped cars and asked them if they saw anything.)

CH: And was that the point you saw the man walking with the little girl on Palos Verdes Drive?

Hum brings out People's 11, A-B. They are photos of the road at Palos Verdes South.

CH: Is that the stretch of road that you saw the man and the little girl?

The first photo is of the direction he was driving. The second photo has a mark on it where he saw the man and the little girl. There are two marks on the photos that he placed (in the prior proceeding). One mark for the man and one for the little girl. In the photo, you can see the Peppertree street sign.

Another photo is put up. An aerial view. The witness points out the area, intersection of Peppertree and Palos Verdes Drive South. Unusually, Hum puts the photos up on the overhead screen.

I note that the pretty blond that Ted spoke to is not here in the afternoon. I don't have it in my notes but I think she was here in the morning.

On the aerial view photos, the witness identifies Inspiration Point and Portuguese Point. He states that he was driving "up the coast." The Peppertree intersection is right at Inspiration Point. The witness states that at the time, he drove that road every other day from 1991 to 2001.

CH: Are you absolutely certain that when you saw the man and child they were approximately twenty feet apart?

I believe the witness answers yes.

Direct is finished and Veretsian gets up to cross.

LV: What is the speed (in that area)?

RB: Twenty five to forty miles per hour.

LV: That area, what is the speed (limit)?

RB: Twenty five miles per hour.

LV: How fast were you driving?

RB: Twenty five.

LV: You were driving west-bound? [...] Would you say that you only got to see them for a few seconds? [...] And that's why you can't identify them.

RB: It was just bizarre and that's why it stuck in my mind.

LV: In your interview, (you said) they were walking at a normal pace and that you told the officer the child was fifteen to twenty feed behind the man. [...] Would you say that your memory is better (now or then)?

Veretsian asks him about his vision and if he was wearing glasses.

RB: Yes. Prescription.

LV: They are bifocals?

RB: The lower portion is just for reading. (The upper portion is for distance.)

LV: And you were wearing glasses?

RB: Yes.

LV: They also seem to be shaded.

RB: Yes. They are shaded.

LV: What's your vision with these glasses?

RB: Perfect (20/20).

LV: Did you see the child's face? [...] Was she crying?

RB: No.

LV: Was she screaming?

RB: No.

LV: Was she sitting down?

RB: No. [...] More like trying to catch up.

LV: No one took you to the scene in 2000?

RB: No, but I drove by that area pretty regularly.

LV: The first time anyone ever took you to the scene was six years later?

Veretsian is challenging him on where he exactly saw the man and child.

LV: And it's a pretty approximate location as to where you saw them?

RB: I think it's pretty finite as to where I saw them. [...] I think it's pretty close.

Veretsian and Harris confer. Veretsian asks Judge Pastor for a sidebar. I see the older black man in the back row, #4 shake his head from side to side. Jurors whisper in the back row.

Veretsian makes an argument to the judge. That's what it sounds like. Hum speaks. I have in my notes that gum or mints are passed in the back row. I must have meant among the jurors.

Cross is finished and there is no redirect. The witness leaves the stand before Judge Pastor can instruct him.

JP: Mr. Barber, you're way ahead of me.

There's another sidebar, and Judge Pastor asks Hum about photos on the overhead.

The next witness is Captian Fred Curcio, Junior.

Juror #11: Asian man
Juror #10: Asian or Latino man. I can't tell

Curcio is a Fire Captian with Los Angeles County for 27 years. He was working Fire Station 106 at Indian Peak and Hawthorne Blvd. He road on the engine and responded to emergency alarms. He was working on November 8th, 2000.

CH: How far from Abalone Cove (is his station)?

FC: I would say about four or five miles.

CH: It's not the closest station to Abalone Cove?

FC: No.

At the station he received a rescue call. It was in 53's district, close to Inspiration Point off of Palso Verdes Drive. The crew that went with him were Armondo Perion (sp?) and Ben Rosen. All three went to the area. There were other units that responded. A paramedic unit responded (from another station, I believe.) The paramedics were Vince Dorn and Mark Choy (sp?). They responded separately from him.

Initally went to Inspiration Point on the drive, where Inspiration Point goes off onto Palos Verdes Drive.

FC: We were the first engine on the scene and requested other engines to hold on that scene. [...] It was vague as to where we were to respond to.

They were traveling in the direction to San Pedro. They then moved the engine further down the road to San Pedro direction. They were flagged down by a person. The engine truck was on Palos Verdes Drive.

CH: The person directed you to a particular direction?

FC: We proceeded on foot all three of us from the engine.

The witness is asked to describe the terrain.

FC: We went down a slopey hill that was just brush. [...] Another gentleman further down (?) that someone was hollering for help.

This was brush and dirt terrain.

FC: He stated that someone was hollering for help back at the LAX direction. [...] I heard a voice and I went in that direction. [...] He was asking us to come over and help. [...] There was a small path off the embankment and we met him there.

CH: Did you ask the defendant...

FC: He said he was out here and she's over here and he was doing CPR.

CH: When you first saw him was he doing CPR?

FC: He had come back from the victim to point us to the victim.

CH: Did he inform you that the victim was a child?

(I believe the witness answers no.)

Hum asks the witness to describe the man's demeanor.

FC: He seemed to be what I would describe as calm, or removed from the situation.

CH: Was he crying?

FC: No.

CH: Was he screaming?

FC: No.

CH: Did the defendant appear to you to be upset?

FC: No sir.

CH: Did you go to the victim?

FC: The paramedics arrived after us. I'm not sure of the time, maybe a minute or two. [...] She was lying on a picnic bench I believe. [...] The paramedics pronounced the victim dead.

But..

PH: Objection!

JP: Sustained.

CH: You saw the paramedics have a conversation with the defendant? [...] And was his demeanor the same?

FC: Yes.

PH: Objection!

JP: Sustained.

CH: Was there something about that (situation that caught your attention)?

FC: The fact that a child had passed away. [...] He appeared to be the parent.

CH: Have you ever seen a parent react this way to the loss of a child?

FC: No sir. [...] He stated that he and the child were up there, and pointed to Inspiration Point.

CH: Did he tell you what he did?

FC: (He said) He looked and looked over the cliff and saw her down in the water. [...] He (said) he tried to make a call for help and then immediately ran around and down the cliff to where she was located. [...] He told me he came back to the road and took a trail down to the rocks and to the water. [...] I believe he stated she was in the water by the rocks.

CH: Did he tell you about how much time had passed between the time she went over the cliff and when he went down to the water?

FC: No.

CH: Did he say there was anyone to call?

FC: He said to call his wife.

CH: You spoke with the detectives at some point and prepared a report? [...] And the report appears to be accurate and then (?) fresh in his mind?

Hum offers him to look over the report prepared by detectives.

CH: He told Firefighters he went to use a cell phone on the beach before he went to the (bay to go to his daughter)? [...] Did he tell you how long the time between? [...] Did he appear to be wet to you?

FC: No sir.

CH: The defendant told you that he did CPR or was doing CPR?

The witness reviews the report again. The report refreshes his memory.

FC: The defendant said, "I'm doing CPR."

CH: Did you see him doing CPR?

FC: No.

CH: Did you see any blood or any other material on the defendants face?

FC: No.

Hum puts an aerial photograph up on the overhead screen, People's 82.

CH: Can you see the area of the archery range?

The archery range area is pointed out and I'm stunned. She wasn't down on the beach. She was up the slope a ways near an archery range on a table. The defendant carried here there, all the way from the ocean/rocks below. The archery range appears to be a little more than a third, almost half a ways up the hillside.

The afternoon break is called. Hum tells Sarah that the photos that are coming are of her daughter on the picnic table, and it's up to her whether she wants to stay or not.

Out in the hallway, Harris approaches me and says that in regards to the Peterson case, I described him as "incoherent." I get this very puzzled expression on my face because I was not blogging during the Peterson case. He can see I'm totally confused by what he's saying because he adds, "You also said some very nice things." Harris goes onto say that he is kidded around the office and called "incoherent." I mention to Harris that I wasn't blogging about the Peterson case. That my blog has only been around for two years and that I have a million page views in that time.

I have no idea what Harris is talking about and I'm certain that he has confused me with someone else. I'm puzzled because I know I wrote a short story about the Scott Peterson civil case a few months, and I'm wondering if it's possible he is referring to that entry, but I'm pretty certain that I never mentioned him in that entry. When I get home, this is the first thing I'm going to check.

At the break I check the dark days marked out on the calendar behind the clerks desk. The following days are X'd out: August 6th, 7th, 10th, 19th (forced state closure due to cutbacks), 25th - 28th, September 1st. Hum and Leslie chat in the well. Harris and Veretsian are at the defense table. A request is made to bring out the defendant. Sarah and her supporters are sitting directly behind me in the second row.

3:04 pm. The jury files in. Not a single one stands out. Average, mostly casually dressed individuals. The next People's exhibit is put up in front of the jurors, but I can barely see the photos because of where I am sitting. Hum asks about Photo D. I barely see Photo D, but Lauren's head area looks quite bloody.

The witness verifies that he spoke with detectives by phone about a week or so later. After he left the location he went back to the Fire Station. At the station, there was a critical debriefing. Counselors came to the station to discuss how we dealt with the situation and to get the stress off.

PH: Objection! Relevancy!

I believe Pastor over rules the objection.

Captian Curcio was sent home after the debriefing.

Harris gets up to cross the witness.

PH: Approximately what time did you arrive and get to the scene?

FC: (The engine) reported around three or three-thirty. [...] They received a call from 911 and responded to that.

Everything around that area is Los Angeles County. 106 District is on top of the hill. The San Pedro area would be La City. Rancho Palos Verdes would be LA County.

Curcio was directed by a gentleman to come down to the archery range. He has no memory to describe that gentleman. Then he (Brown) asked me to come over here to help.

PH: That wasn't specifically what he said was it?

FC: That's the best of my recollection.

PH: You had an interview with detective Leslie at the prior proceeding? [...] Mr. Brown was screaming Hurry up! Hurry up!

FC: I don't recall.

PH: You don't have a recollection of Mr. Brown said, "Hurry up. Hurry up?"

FC: I don't remember exactly what was said.

Harris asks him about the report the detectives wrote of their interview with him.

PH: And you reviewed it as recently as two hours ago.

FC: Yes.

PH: Could you read the very first paragraph?

FC: I read it.

PH: Does that refresh your recollection? You stated....

FC: I can't recall it in my mind.

PH: Is there some reason that you don't want to tell the jury (the statement) "Hurry up?"

FC: I don't remember that specifically.

Harris goes over the prior transcript from the first trial. The witness states he doesn't dispute the record but he doesn't remember word for word.

FC: As I sit here I can't remember that word for word.

PH: As you sit here today, you didn't testify on direct, "Hurry up, Hurry up." [...] Is the reason you didn't tell this jury is because it doesn't support your reason?

CH: Objection!

JP: Sustained!

PH: You observed while he ( Brown) was running to get you, he wasn't performing CPR?

FC: Correct.

PH: And you don't know if before that he was doing CPR?

FC: Correct.

Harris now puts up People's 15, an enlarged Polaroid shot of the defendant (I'm guessing taken on the day of the incident).

PH: Do you remember telling Detective Leslie he didn't have a significant amount of blood in his beard?

FC: Yes.

Harris now crosses the witness on his testimony about the defendant's demeanor.

PH: You said it was calm and removed from the situation. [...] Do you recall in another interview (you stated) the defendant appeared dazed. [...] Said demeanor last trial calm and detached.

They are now going over the prior cross (from first trial) and that he agreed that he said in interview he (Brown) appeared dazed.

PH: Initially said "calm and removed" but admitted on cross, admitted you said "dazed."?

FC: He appeared calm, removed and dazed.

There are more questions about calm, removed and dazed.

PH: You testified that you've never experienced a parent being dazed?

FC: Not that I recall, yes.

PH: Do you know who Jessica Brothers is?

FC: No.

PH: Armondo Carrion? VIctor Rosenthal? [...] Who showed up next?

FC: I can't recall (if it was) paramedics or sheriff's unit.

The paramedics are Vincent Dorn and Mark Choy. The witness insists he doesn't recall who got there first (after his unit). Eventually sheriff's showed up. (The paramedics).... It was two, three or four minutes before the sheriff's.

PH: How many bystanders at the victim's body?

FC: To my recollection, Mr. Brown.

The witness was at the scene thirty or forty minutes. He doesn't recall any other spectators at the scene.

PH: Was Mr. Brown cooperative?

FC: Yes.

PH: Did he appear to be evasive?

FC: No.

Harris takes a moment. He's coughing and needs at drink. There are questions about an interview with the defendant.

PH: As you sit here today, do you have an independent recollection of what he said to you?

Harris coughs again.

FC: Yes.

PH: For example, when he told you he ran down to the beach and to use a cell phone? [...] And when he told you (the?) time to get Lauren out of the water?

FC: Not specifically, no.

PH: When I was asking you about "Hurry up, hurry up."

FC: I don't remember. [...] I remember the basic reference, to telling us to come.

The witness states that one member of his crew was also a firefighter paramedic, but he was not on duty as a paramedic at the time. That firefighter did a quick assessment of the victim.

PH: You did not go over to Lauren and try to help?

FC: No, I did not. [...] I was trying to coordinate radio and air communication. I did not assist with the victim.

PH: Where was Mr. Brown?

FC: He stepped back. [...] I don't know why he stepped back and wasn't hysterically involved.

Harris now refers to his prior testimony.

PH: You said you thought it odd that he said, "She is over here." [...] Today, do you still feel that was odd for the situation?

FC: Yes.

Harris takes a moment and then cross is over.

Hum redirects his witness.

CH: At the prior proceeding, during cross examination you testified you had used the word dazed and you asked what you meant. (You) had said, to explain that, you said "removed from the situation; not hysterical." And that's what you meant? [...] When you testified today, you didn't use the word dazed. But today you avoided using the word dazed.

FC: That's correct.

The witness is finished and the next witness is called, Victor Rosenthal. (I have in my notes that the prior witness and the next witness are both in uniform.)

3:45 pm: Victor Rosenthal states he i a firefighter specialist. Back then he was a firefighter paramedic. He describes the special training he received to be a paramedic. He's been a firefighter for 24 years.

On Wednesday, November 8th, 2000 he was not working as a paramedic. They had three different paramedics at their station but the paramedic unit came from another station. He was working on an engine crew that day. The firefighter paramedics that responded were Mark Choy and Vince Dorn. Rosenthal gives some beginning testimony just as prior witness did.

At the scene, they did a head to toe assessment of her (Lauren's) injuries. Firefighter paramedics Vince Dorn and the witness did that. She was a small girl, about four or five years old. The witness describes her injuries.

VR: Massive blunt force area to the parietal area of the skull. There was a disfiguring, depressed skull fracture. Massive blunt force to the chest area. A deformity to the wrist area.

When I hear about her injuries I become overwhelmed at how massive they must have been. The witness states he can't recall much about other people in the area. The witness points out and identifies the defendant.

CH: Anything special (that you noticed about the defendant)?

VR: He appeared to be indifferent to the occasion.

CH: What do you mean?

VR: He appeared to not have any emotional involvement. He appeared to be a bystander.

CH: He did not appear to be related to the victim?

VR: At that first time, no.

CH: Did you notice anything about the defendant's demeanor that (he) might be related to the victim.

VR: No.

CH: Did you later learn that he was the victim's father?

VR: Yes.

CH: Did that surprise you?

VR: Yes.

The victim verifies that he's seen a lot of tragedy in his career.

CH: Was there something specific about the defendant that day that stood out to you?

VR: (There was) no emotion. He wasn't despondent. He did not appear to be in shock. [...] He appeared to me to be a bystander.

CH: The majority of this incident you don't recall?

The witness states that when he read information about the case in the newspaper, he contacted the prosecutor, Hum.

VR: I was curious about his demeanor because the victim was wet.

CH: Anything else that sticks out in your mind about this incident?

VR: No.

CH: Did you participate in the critical debriefing?

VR: Captain Curcio; Chief Williams; I don't remember (whom else participated).

CH: After the debriefing, was Chief Williams sent home and Captain Curcio sent home?

VR: Yes.

That's the end of direct and cross by Veretsian begins.

LV: Now, you describe MR. Brown's demeanor on November 8th, 2000. And you knew about that demeanor on November 8th, 2000?

VR: I don't recall.

LV: You didn't tell detectives about his demeanor in 2001, in 2002, in 2003, in 2004?

VR: I don't recall.

LV: You didn't tell anyone about his demeanor until 2006?

VR: That's correct.

LV: You knew that Mr. Brown was being prosecuted?

VR: I don't recall.

LV: Did you testify in a prior proceeding?

VR: Yes.

LV: Do you recall testifying that you had previously found out two years before that he was being prosecuted?

VR: I don't know if it was two years.

LV: In fact you never told Captain Curcio about your observation of Cameron Brown's demeanor?

VR: Correct.

LV: If I told you Captain Curcio said.... [...] Did you talk to Mr. Brown on November 8th?

VR: No.

LV: Did you come within (enough distance to) Mr. Brown to see his face?

VR: No.

LV: You did the patient assessment with firefighter Dorn? How long did that take?

VR: Maybe two minutes.

LV: Do you remember the hike down?

The witness states he doesn't remember the people and he doesn't remember anyone flagging them down. There are questions about who he remembers seeing at the scene. What firefighters. What officers.

LV: Do you remember if there were bystanders?

VR: I honestly don't remember.

LV: How soon after did paramedics arrive?

VR: It wasn't long. Two to three minutes.

LV: Would you allow Mr. Brown to come and touch the body?

VR: No.

LV: You would expect him to step back and let you do your work?

CH: Objection!

JP Sustained!

LV: Did he step back and let you do your work?

VR: Yes.

Veretsian asks several questions that he doesn't recall.

LV: Sheriff's arrived and secured the scene where the body was?

VR: Yes.

LV: When (where?) you were after?

He was standing around. He was observing the defendant. He never said anything to Mr. Brown.

LV: So your opinion is based solely on watching him?

VR: No.

LV: But it wasn't based on talking to him?

End of cross and redirect begins.

CH: So your opinion was based solely on?

VR: By asking one of my coworkers.

LV: Objection!

JP: Overruled. It's not received for the truth of the matter.

He asked a coworker who was that individual, and the coworker said, "I believe that is the father." The information for the coworker and plus his observations, that combined...let to his opinion.

VR: Because of my experience on the job.

Redirect is finished and recross begins.

LV: Did you on direct, about to say that you'd asked your coworker and then you caught yourself?

CH: Objection!

JP: Sustained!

4:12 pm: The witness is finished and the people call Sargent Brothers. I note that Judge Pastor uses every moment of the court day possible.

Jessica Paige Brothers.

I have in my notes that Ted left before or around 4 pm. Pastor instructs the witness.

Brothers's current occupation is a Sargent with the LA Co Sheriff's. She's assigned to the Compton station. She has been with the Sheriff's Dept. for 13 years.

In 2000, on November 8th, she was on patrol with her partner Klaus Girmes. They were in uniform, in a black and white.

JB: I had been a deputy just under four years. I was working patrol just under five weeks. I was assigned to the Lomita Sheriff's station that covers that area.

She started her shift at 2 pm. At around 3 pm she received a rescue call, child over a cliff on Palos Verdes South between Peppertree and Cherry Hill. They responded with lights and sirens. It took eight minutes to get there. Palos Verdes travels east and west in that area. The road is up above the shoreline, raised, on the bluffs.

At the time, she saw other emergency vehicles. She saw fire engine and noted where it was parked. On the ocean side.

JB: We were directed towards the archery range.

She went down the bluffs. She did not use the dirt road to go down the bluffs.

JB: There were several paramedics there. I don't know their names.

CH: When you arrived, tell us what you saw.

JB: Saw paramedics working on a little girl on the picnic table. And I saw a man nearby.

She identifies the defendant.

CH: Did you see the defendant doing anything? Was the defendant saying anything? Can you describe his demeanor.

JB: When I first saw him, he was just watching.

CH: did he appear to be... was he crying or screaming?

JB: No.

That's the end of the court day. The jury is ordered back at 9 am, Friday.

After the jury exits, counsel and the judge talk about the next witnesses that are up. Erickson then Leslie on the 8th and 9th. Then don't know if we will get to..... Something about LAX will be when he retakes the stand. Counsel states that the jury view could be at the conclusion of all the testimony. Not sure who says this, "We are moving at a faster rate."

Pastor wants got excuse his staff otherwise they are paying overtime. Counsel then go off the record.

This entry will be edited for spelling and clarity later.

Cameron Brown Retrial: Day Six, Part I

Monday, August 3rd, 2009.


Testimony ended early today after just a few minutes. Alternate juror #3 was in the ER for 14 hours over the weekend and was unable to get any rest. She is exhausted. Pastor and all parties agreed to give the juror one day of rest in the hopes that she will be able to continue tomorrow morning. If she is unable to continue tomorrow, then it looks like they will have to let her go.

I'll be working on finishing and editing my entry for Day Three and trying to also get the testimony for Day Four up by this evening.

Cameron Brown Retrial: Day Three

Updated!
Wednesday, July 29th, 2009

Morning Prosecution Witnesses:
#2, #3, #4 (collectively, Fiorella Miletich; Jacquine Martin; Marlene Quiram; all know the victim from her school, Christian Montasori School, in Costa Mesa; testimony complete)

Afternoon Prosecution Witnesses:

#5 Jeanie Herrera Saunders (teacher/administrator at Lauren's school; testimony complete)
#6 Deborah Jenkin (parking lot attendant at Abalone Cove; testimony complete)
#7 Saad Omar (witness who saw victim and defendant hiking on trails and at Portuguese Point; testimony incomplete)

I did not attend the morning session.

I missed the 12:38 train and I'm hoping that I'll just make it in side the courtroom before testimony starts. I get to the 9th floor in time to ask Susan Kim who the witnesses were in the morning session. She tells me that the testimony from Fiorella Miletich was read into the record. This was testimony from the first trial. The third witness was Jacquine Martin. The fourth witness was Marlene Quiram. She states that all knew the victim from the school she attended, Christian Montessori School, in Costa Mesa. She states that some of the witnesses worked for the school and some were parents. She doesn't know immediately which were witch.

When I get inside 107, I see that the mother, Sarah Key-Marer is still in the courtroom. Good for her that she is allowed to stay for the testimony of other witnesses. Personally, I would be shocked if Pastor excluded her. I don't see Brown's wife, Patty or the brother-in-law, Ted immediately. Ted arrives some time later, but I don't see him arrive. I notice that Lara Veretsian has her hair up on top of her head. I think it looks better that way, more professional. She's wearing a form-fitting short pale pink jacket and a gray skirt. Marer is wearing a black belted suit dress.

Pastor calls his court into session. Another witness is on the stand, and from where Hum is starting in his examination, it sounds to me like she was on the stand in the morning, too. The witness is Ms. Herrera Saunders, and she is under direct.

HS: Lauren seemed to be afraid of water.

The trip to England a week before she died is discussed and Lauren was gone from school. Saunders states that during that weeks' time, Lauren became more agitated, more nervous.

JP: After she came back or before she left?

HS: The (behavior) became (more) even before the trip. [...] Sarah was concerned about her emotional state. [...] Sarah continued to ask her to keep an eye on her child.

Saunders was responsible for the supervision of the pick-up and drop of of children at the school. The school was aware of who was allowed to pick up each child. Saunders states Sarah had asked her to check the file in relation to the biological father (picking up Lauren).

HS: There was a form in the file. Each day for when the biological father was to pick up Lauren. If there was no form, I would call Sarah to clarify.

Hum asks her if she would recognize Mr. Brown if she saw him.

HS: Possibly.

The witness identifies Brown for the record and states he is wearing a blue tie.

JP: Pointing to and identifying Cameron Brown, who's seated.

Saunders states she had seen the defendant pick up Lauren at the school on a number of occasions and she observed him pick her up on the last day of her life.

Brown appears to look back into the gallery area.

Saunders states that on all the prior occasions when the father picked up the child, he was with a woman, his wife Patty. She vaguely remembers what Patty looks like. (Patty is not in the courtroom to be identified.) Saunders states, "Except for the last day."

Hum asks the witness to describe Lauren's demeanor.

HS: When the defendant would come to pick up Lauren, she would be slower. Slower to get up. She appeared more solemn; she didn't run to the occasion.

CH: Specifically on November 8th, was Brown with the lady who had been with him on all the prior occasions?

HS: This time, I didn't see the woman.

Hum asks the witness to describe Lauren's demeanor.

HS: She was very, very nervous. She was very hard to calm down. She was whimpering during the day and wanted someone to call her mother.

CH: Was she crying?

HS: Yes. Off and on throughout the day. [...] It was more of a frantic ... she kept wanting to call her mom. [...] She didn't want to be on the playground. I was trying to console her.

CH: She kept asking for her mom?

HS: Yes. [...] She wanted to speak with her mom by phone.

The witness states that she did call Lauren's mother approximately at the noon hour. She called the mom and placed Lauren on the phone to mom. Lauren was next to the witness at the picnic tables.

HS: I don't recall the full conversation. I just remember her saying, "Mommy, mommy, mommy."

CH: Was Lauren on the phone when the defendant came to pick her up?

Hum asks how Lauren behaved when the defendant arrived.

HS: She would, she became more strong in stature and her face became a poker face.

CH: Was she still crying when the defendant came to pick her up?

HS: Yes. [...] Lauren looked at Cam directly and said that she was fine. [...] She remembered Mr. Brown said, (I missed the rest of the answer). [...] Her dad picked her up and held her to the front of him. Her head was over his shoulder.

CH: Did you see her face?

HS: Yes sir. [...] She starts to cry. [...] Lauren was still whimpering, crying. Her face; I remember the cries and with her right arm, she was reaching out to me.

The witness starts to break up on the stand. It's hard for me to listen to this. My eyes start to get moist exactly like they did when the mother was testifying about learning her daughter was dead. I dab at my eyes. Many many times, my friends that I have among the accredited press have told me that I cannot get emotionally involved in the story. That I have to step back, and not get emotionally involved. I know I've got a long road to go to get to that place if I continue to cover cases like this in the future.

JP: (To the witness) Do you need a moment?

HS: I'm fine your honor.

PH: Mr. Brown came (to the school). He actually picked her up and held her and walked away?

HS: Yes. [...] Yes. He had her and held her.

PH: Like a father who lovingly picked her up?

HS: I'm not going to judge. I have a different perspective. [...] It's my perspective, but I do not want to judge his motive.

There's something that Harris says, something about her prior testimony I believe, that she would not answer a question as to whether she thought he (the defendant) killed Lauren.

HS: Being present at the time and seeing different fathers, I don't want to judge his intentions.

Harris asks another question that I miss.

HS: In all honesty, I did not see all the love there.

PH: You want to be fair?

HS: I'm here in the best interest of Lauren.

PH: How long did you know Lauren?

HS: I knew Lauren for a couple of years, if my memory serves me correctly.

PH: She was a little girl who tried to please?

HS: She was a little girl who had a lot of love in her heart. [...] She tried to please.

The witness clarifies that she was like this just prior to the England trip.

The witness states she doesn't remember specifically the nine days before (Lauren died) but she does remember specifically the agitation.

There is a note here that I have as an answer to a question, but it doesn't make any sense. Not out of character where it compromised her activities in the courtroom (I think I meant to write classroom.).

HS: Sarah was always in contact with me.

PH: Do you have a specific memory of that week, of contacting Sarah?

HS: Not as specific as that question put to me.

PH: Do you know if she had long periods of crying?

HS: I can't recall.

PH: Lauren would not enter the pool?

HS: That's correct.

There's a question about swimming lessons.

PH: Lauren was particularly verbal?

HS: Her vocabulary was particularly developed. (I think she added that Lauren's speech was well framed; my note is not clear.)

PH: Never heard her say (negative) comments about her mother?

HS: No.

PH: Any comments about her going to jail?

HS: No.

PH: Or that she was a bad mother?

HS: No.

PH: Did you ever hear her say anything like, "I don't want to go live with my Papa Cameron?"

HS: No.

PH: She ever come to you with anything like that?

HS: No, not verbally.

PH: She adored her mother?

HS: Yes.

PH: She would run to her mother?

HS: Yes.

I see the bailiff get up to speak to Ted. I don't see what precipitated the bailiff getting up. Ted leaves the courtroom.

PH: You described her as a child who was not an adventurous child?

HS: Yes.

There's a question about the jungle gym. She didn't play on it.

PH: She wasn't a tomboy?

HS: No. She was more docile. [...] I remember her mainly with the girls.

Cross is finished. Hum gets up to redirect.

CH: When the defendant picked her up, where was she?

HS: On the playground.

CH: And where did they head? (defendant and Lauren)

HS: Towards the classroom.

CH: And you couldn't see them after that?

HS: Correct.

This witness is finished and a new witness is called. I'm surprised at how quickly they are going through witnesses.

Deborah Jenkin. Pastor instructs her like he has done all the prior witnesses.

JP: Please wait until you hear the entire question. Please don't speak over each other.

Jenkin states that she works for the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) as a special education assistant. She's worked in that position since 2001, eight years. Before that she states that she worked for the City of Rancho Palos Verdes as a recreation leader. She would staff different parks. Worked occasionally at City Hall. She would staff outings. She mentions the different parks that she worked at. Abalone Cove (it's pronounced Ab-a-lone-ey) where you could go to the beach and play in the water coves (and tide pools).

Back in November, 2000, she was a parking attendant at Abalone Cove parking lot and she collected the parking fees. She's asked the number of hours she was there on November 8th, 2000. At first she says, "11 am until 4:30." Then she apologizes and says, "We opened at 9 am."

CH: On November 9th, were you working at the booth and taking money?

The witness describes the parking lot and where it's located. It's adjacent to Palso Verdes Drive South.

It wasn't easy understanding the description of the parking lot, the surrounding areas and the trails over the embankment. What really helped me to understand the terrain, was when I got home I went to Google, and typed in Abalone Cove, California. When the map came up I clicked on it and switched to satellite view then zoomed in. Everything this witness described then became crystal clear to me. You can see the parking lot. You can see where the tide pools are and make out the nursery school and playground. You can see the trails, Portuguese Point (that looks like a rectangular square) and Inspiration Point, slightly to the east of it with the beach area between the two points.

The witness states that from LAX to San Pedro on Palos Verdes South to get into the parking area. Then, you have to get into the right lane. The road goes into a slight decline down hill. About twenty feet after that you pay at the booth. The gate is raised after you pay the fee. Jenkin states that after you enter the parking lot, there is parking to the left, right and right in front of the booth. When you enter the lot, the booth is on the driver's left.

There is a park like grassy area with picnic tables and there is a fence, about waist high around the parking lot along the edge of the bluff. The parking lot is at the top of the bluff, near Palos Verdes Drive South.

DJ: The main trail ends up at the tide pools. [...] There is a nursery school and playground at the beach.

At a corner edge of the parking lot, there is a break in the fence and this is the trail head. This is in the direction of San Pedro.

DJ: Further down the road (Palos Verdes), there is a driveway. It's a private road that leads down to the nursery school. The road has a gate that is locked. [...] There are no other structures in the parking lot. [...] There is a pay phone there. [...] To leave the parking lot, there is a spike strip, so you cannot exit the parking lot via the entrance. You exit via another area of the lot.

The witness states that if someone entered the lot, then exited to the left, she could not see them (exit). At that time of day, that lot, it wasn't very busy. Jenkin estimates that on that day there were maybe a total of ten cars in the lot all day. She closed the gate at 4:30 pm.

Jenkin states she saw a car that caught her attention. A little girl was in the front seat. She didn't have a seat belt on and she wasn't sitting in a car seat.

DJ: I focused on her. She was sitting very still. She focused on me. It was very peculiar.

She doesn't remember the car exactly. She does state that it was a beat up, white and grayish vehicle. It was not all one color. There was a luggage rack with a surfboard on top.

DJ: (The little girl) She was sitting very still. She moved only her head and focused on me.

CH: What was it about it (the situation?) that caused you to notice her.

DJ: Most kids who come to the beach...

The witness describes how the kids she usually sees are excited to go to the beach. They are upbeat; more animated. She also states, "They (the defendant and Lauren) looked so totally different. [...] The child was well kept. She was well dressed and neat; not the man. He looked disheveled, wild. [...] To me, it looked really weird, like a kidnapping. [...] She had eye contact with me the whole time."

Jenkin describes what she did when they arrived. At the time the defendant's vehicle drove up, she was on the phone. She collected the money and gave him a mat to the tide pools. He drove off to the left and he went to the left. Jenkin thought that was odd. She went outside the booth to see where they had parked. Usually, most people with children would park near where the trail head begins, but he parked near the booth.

CH: Later, did she notice sirens?

DJ: At first, I didn't think about it. [...] There were an enormous amount of sirens. [...] Then helicopters. [...] I called City Hall. [...] They gave me a call back later and told her a child had fallen off the cliff.

Hum puts photos up on the bulletin board. This is people's #4, with photos A through F.

These are small photos and I'm frustrated that they are put in front of the jurors and not up on the overhead screen. I'm wondering why they didn't enlarge them, or just take them off the poster board and pass them to the jurors. I can't see the photos well at all. There are various photos of the parking booth area.

Whenever photos are placed in front of the jury like this, Pastor leaves the bench and sits over in the very end of the jury box on the ledge so he can see exactly what the jury is seeing. The defense attorney's are crouched down in front. The witness is standing on one side of the display in front of the jurors, and the prosecutor Hum, is standing on the other side, nearest the gallery. Pastor reminds the witness to speak up, since his court reporter is on the other side of this bulletin board.

The witness verifies what all the photos are depicting. Photo A is of the guard shack. Photo B is of the opening in the fence to go down to the trail. Photo C is a close up of the trail head with the sign there. Photo D is a downward shot towards the playground. Photo E is a downward shot towards the nursery school. Photo F is another view downward toward the tide pools.

This is the end of her direct testimony and Harris gets up to cross.

PH: It's your testimony that this girl looked at you and she looked scared? [...] During your first interview, you never testified that she looked scared.

DJ: I said she looked uncomfortable.

PH: Never mentioned before that she looked scared. [...] Before you testified that she looked like she had just woken up. [...] You later learned that she had just rode in from Orange County? [...] In your prior testimony interview, you never testified that she wasn't wearing a seat belt. [...]

DJ: She didn't have a car seat or seat belt.

PH: You never testified before that she never wore a seat belt?

(I'm not positive, but I believe the witness answered "Correct."

PH: Could you please read what's on the sign (in one of the photos from the people's exhibit)?

DJ: Caution. Hazardous area. Please stay on the path.

Harris has her to try to guess the width of the path.

DJ: Four feet wide I'm guessing. It narrows in some spots.

Harris is motioning all over the photographs. There's no clarification and Hum asks for it as to where Harris is indicating in the photos. The witness would not comment to the length of the trail.

PH: She wasn't crying or wailing?

DJ: No. She was very quiet.

Harris brings up other areas where people park. The church, where they can park free, or on the street at Palos Verdes Drive South.

PH: Just because there were only ten cars in the lot doesn't mean there were only ten cars in the area?

That's the end of the cross and Hum steps up to redirect. He goes over where the tide pools are.

2:45 pm: The afternoon break is called. Ted and Pat Harris leave the courtroom together. I introduce myself to DDA Craig Hum and get the full name of the prior witness: Jeanie Herrera Saunders. A maintenance man comes to work on something at Judge Pastor's bench. It looks like he's working on his chair. Pat Harris and Detective Leslie pleasantly chat. Brown goes back into the holding cell area during the break. One of the things I noticed when I came in the afternoon but forgot to write down until now is that there is one less juror in the jury box. They evidently excused juror #9 and replaced him with one of the alternates. It's a much older white man with graying/whitish hair. I think this was for the best. I wasn't too impressed with the college student not clarifying his obligations to the attorneys during voir dire. Pastor even commented on in the other day to the juror.

After the break, Hum continues with his redirect of his witness. The witness clarifies which direction the tide pools are and relationship directions.

Jenkin's testimony is finished and she is excused with the standard admonishment.

The next witness called is "Sam Omar." Pastor's clerk was indisposed with something so to speed things along, Pastor swears in the witness himself. Two individuals come into the courtroom from another case and sit in the back. Pastor addresses them and kicks them out of the courtroom. He tells them if they are sitting on another case, they shouldn't be coming into his courtroom to listen to another case. I note that Pastor is very direct and forceful in his demeanor. In Fidler's courtroom, I've seen him get very irate with noisy spectators. Often, Fidler would just give his bailiff a look, and the bailiff would take care of it.

The witness clarifies that his name is spelled Saad Omar, and that sometimes goes by the name of Sam. I'm not positive, but I think Hum asks this witness his age, since I have written down "46."

Omar states that he has one child, a boy who is 18 years old. He's divorced. Back in November, 2000 he was living in Long Beach. Before that he was living in Redondo Beach. He worked in Laguna Beach. He owned a coffee house. He owned the business in November, 2000. Omar states that he had a regular day that he would take off at the coffee house. That day was Wednesday.

CH: Are you familiar with a place called Portuguese Point?

SO: Yes. [...] I would go there one to two times a month. [...] On his days off, Wednesday, he would go there.

CH: Why go there?

SO: It's a quiet place and I like to read there. [...] I've gone there for (about) ten years.

CH: Have you ever seen children hiking trails up to Inspiration Point or Portuguese Point?

SO: No, I haven't.

November 8th, 2000 was a regular day off for him. He went to Portuguese Point off of Palos Verdes Road South. He drove from his home in Redondo and parked in the Abalone Cove lot and paid to park. He then went to the hiking trail to the beach off of the parking lot. There's a playground (that you reach) first.

Unfinished unedited entry. Will finish tomorrow.

Updated on August 3rd, 2009

If you face the playground, the direction Omar went to was to the left, towards San Pedro. The first landmark is Portuguese Point. Omar states he got to the parking lot around 1 pm in the afternoon. He walked down the beach to the end. Then there's a small park area and then a paved road that goes to Portuguese Point.

SO: It was very clear, nice weather, but not cloudy at all.

The witness describes Portuguese Point. The cliff area is about 120 feet above the beach area. There is fencing all around the point. There is a dirt track (path) on the inside of the fencing. It's a flat wide area.

CH: Is it about the size of a football field?

SO: Yes.

Omar went out onto the point with the intention of reading a book. The cliffs stop you from walking on the beach to the left (at the bottom of the point). There's a paved road that goes up to Portuguese Point right from the beach level. It curves a few times. Portuguese Point is a fenced in, flat safe area.

Omar climbed the paved road to the top of Portuguese Point.

SO: It starts as a steep road, then it's milder then steep again as it curves to the point.

CH: When you were at the top, did you look in a particular direction?

The witness states that he looked west, towards LAX, or, basically back towards the parking lot from where he came from.

I just want to add here that this section of the California coastline doesn't face west as one might naturally think. The coastline faces south. It can be confusing, but Portuguese Point is to the west of Inspiration Point, and LAX is further west. San Pedro is to the east of Inspiration Point.

When Omar looked west, he saw a man with a little child behind him. He saw them on a trail on the cliff embankment somewhere between him and the parking lot. They were not on the paved road (yet). They were on a dirt trial. As they were on the dirt trial, the man was in front and the child was approximately five to six feet behind the man.

Hum has the witness visually show the distance by walking towards the witness. The witness tells Hum to stop when he reaches the approximate distance between him that he saw the little girl trailing behind the man.

CH: You watched them, why?

SO: Because it was unusual to see any kids.

The witness observed the man and child go up the paved road. The trail intersected the paved road about half-way up the cliff.

SO: The man was always in front of the child.

Omar observed the pair turn up, to go towards Portuguese Point.

SO: I saw them go up the paved road; the man was in front. They were closer to where... [...] I turned away for about 30 seconds. [...] The man was always in front and the child was always in back. [...] The man got up to Portuguese Point and stopped at an area close to me about six feet away. [...] The child also stopped and eventually caught up to the man.

The witness identifies Cameron Brown. Judge Pastor states for the record that the witness is pointing to the defendant.

CH: Does the defendant look different than what he did at the time?

SO: Yes.

The people introduce exhibit #15, a facial photo of Brown taken (I later learn) on November 8th, 2000. He has a partial beard and a mustache. He's much more muscular looking, even in just the photo of his head and chest area. Hum displays the large photo to the jurors.

CH: From the time you first saw the man and the little girl until they were (out of your view) did you ever see the little girl running?

SO: No.

CH: Did you ever see her throwing rocks?

SO: No.

The witness states that the defendant looked around the area of Portuguese Point, then looked towards Inspiration Point.

CH: That was toward San Pedro?

(I believe the witness answers yes.) Hum asks how the little girl looked.

SO: She looked tired; subdued.

CH: Did she appear to be having fun?

SO: No.

CH: Was she laughing?

SO: No.

CH: Was she talking?

SO: No.

CH: Did the defendant say anything to the little girl at all?

SO: No.

Omar states that the defendant started walking on a small dirt road that goes from Portuguese Point to Inspiration Point. The witness was on the LAX side of Portuguese Point. Brown walked to the other side from the LAX side to the Inspiration Point side.

CH: Was the defendant in front and the little girl followed him?

(From what I'm remembering of testimony, I believe the witness answers yes.)

SO: I saw him reach the other side (of Portuguese Point) and the little girl behind him.

CH: Did you hear any conversation at all?

SO: No.

Once the defendant and the little girl got to the Inspiration Point side of Portuguese Point, the witness states he then walked to the furthest end of Portuguese Point.

SO: I usually go up to the fence. There is a tree there. I climb over the fence and sit under a tree.

CH: Afterwords, did you see the defendant or the little girl anymore?

SO: No.

Sarah Key-Marer happens to be sitting about two feet away from me to my left. She's silently sobbing.

The witness states that when he's sitting under this tree, he can't see the edge end of Inspiration Point. Around 2 pm, Omar states he heard a sound, like a little girl, screaming. It came from behind him, further away, on the Inspiration Point side.

SO: I got up to see where it came from. (When he didn't see anything...) [...] I thought it was a bird and sat back down to read.

There is a beach area between him and Inspiration Point (120 feet below). Omar states that he couldn't see that area from where he was sitting. Later, helicopters were flying by all over. Later in the evening, on the news he saw what happened.

SO: I called the police the next day.

CH: Why?

SO: Based on what I saw, because (unfortunately I miss getting the rest of the answer).

He met the police at Portuguese Point and pointed out to police where he saw the defendant and Lauren hiking. He also went out to the site a few years later with Detective Leslie and DDA Craig Hum. When he first went out with police, it was a week later (after the incident). The police took photos while they were there.

CH: When you spoke to police, did the police tell you what to say? (

SO: No.

CH: Did they tell you who was in front or in back?

SO: No.

CH: Did they tell you what the man said?

SO: No.

CH: Did you ever see her in front of the defendant?

SO: No.

CH: Did you ever see the little girl in front or throwing rocks?

SO: No.

Now Hum goes over a series of photographs taken at both visits to Portuguese Point.

CH: Did you direct Detective Leslie and myself as to the exact places you saw the man and the little girl?

(Yes.)

The people put up a photo of Portuguese Point. This is people's #5. Hum puts the photos up on a tripod directly in front of the jury. Pastor leaves the bench and sits on a the ledge edge of the jury box.

The witness identifies several areas on the photos. All the areas that Omar previously described while sitting on the stand. He points out the first spot he saw the man and the little girl in the photograph, the point where he saw the man and the little girl on the paved road, and the tree that he sat under. Then a photo is put up on the overhead screen and Hum points to a spot on a photograph where the witness had described in a prior proceeding seeing the man and the little girl six feet from him on Portuguese Point.

Another photo is put up on the easel that shows the paved road from the beach to the top of Portuguese Point. Brown and his co-counsel Lara, whisper about the photo still up on the overhead screen.

In all of these photos the witnesses verifies that marks placed on these photos ("SO" for this witness) in a prior proceeding are the same areas that he was talking about in his testimony previously.

People's #7, a group of four photographs are on a poster board and placed before the jury. These are all photos of Portuguese Point. Photo A: Photo of Omar pointing to where he first saw the man and the little girl. Omar identifies the area where he first saw the defendant and the little girl. Photo B: Paved road. Photo C: Of Omar; points out area where he last saw defendant and little girl on the Inspiration Point side of Portuguese Point. Photo D: Point of where Omar saw them when the defendant first approached him (on top of Portuguese Point).

People's #8, a group of three photographs. These photographs all depict the area between Portuguese Point and Abalone Cove parking lot. People are standing in the photo to depict where the witness first saw the defendant and the little girl on the dirt road/path. Second photo where Omar saw them at to top of Portuguese Point and third photo where the paved road meets Portuguese Point.

Another aerial photo, people's #82, back up on the overhead screen.

When the witness heard a girl scream he was on the LAX side of Portuguese Point and not on the Inspiration Point side. I note that from this photograph, one can clearly see how the witness could not see Inspiration Point.

CH: Had you ever been on Inspiration Point?

SO: I tried once, at one point it's very narrow and very scary.

CH: Had you ever seen a child at any point on Inspiration Point?

SO: No.

Direct ends and Harris asks for a sidebar. I note there are about seven minutes left in the court day.

Harri's first questions are about his interviews with police and Hum and that he gave no other interview between that time. Harris brings up to the witness that he was contacted by a defense investigator (and that he refused to talk to him).

SO: I said if I was required to, I would.

PH: Unless you were required to, you didn't want to cooperate? [...] Mr. Hum asked you, "Did anyone pressure you to say the little girl was behind the man?" At the time, did they ask; (did they) tell you that time there was a witness who had said they had seen the little girl in front throw rocks?

SO: No.

Harris asks Omar about where he lives and works.

PH: Do you know of any area in Redondo Beach or Hermosa Beach where there are cliffs? [...] You know the area pretty well?

SO: Yes.

PH: Are those the first cliffs?

SO: No. Ciffs at Palos Verdes (are) first but you can't walk on the beach at those cliffs.

The witness states he's only been out to Inspiration Point once.

PH: You can see Inspiration Point from Portuguese Point?

Harris asks many questions about what can be seen of Inspiration Point from Portuguese Point, that you can see the flat areas of Inspiration Point from; that can be seen from Portuguese Point.

The witness states that the one time he went to Inspiration Point, he walked 1/2 way to narrow path. He didn't make it all the way there (at the end). Omar states one can't see the San Pedro side of Inspiration Point as well from Portuguese Point.

At the LAX side of Portuguese Point you can't see Inspiration Point. But from the San Pedro side of Portuguese Point, you can see the LAX side of Inspiration Point. In between both points there is a cove, Sacred cove. The witness agrees (or states) one cannot get from Abalone Cove beach area to Sacred Cove.

SO: The cliffs go directly into the ocean.

The witness states he's never seen kids on Portuguese Point.

PH: Are you aware that they take walks, hikes from Abalone Cover to Sacred Cove?

(I'm not positive, but I believe the witness either states he's not aware of that or he's never seen kids on hikes.)

PH: If someone took a hike from Abalone Cove to Sacred Cove they would have to go over Portuguese Point?

SO: I believe the road starts from the beach. You can bypass the Portuguese Point.

(I have a last note that is not clear as to whether it was a question or answer, but I'm leaning towards an answer.) And that would bypass and go onto Pacific Palisades.

Court is over for the day. I don't believe cross is finished. Pastor orders the jury back at 9:15 am tomorrow and 9 am for the witness. Pastor is asked to order two witnesses back for tomorrow. Mr. James Witherau (sp?) for 10 am tomorrow and a Mr. Barber at 1:30 pm in the afternoon. Counsel is ordered back by 8:45 am. Judge Pastor asks to see counsel off the record for a moment.