January 10, 2014
Prior stories:
01/01/14 Jahi's Legacy - by CaliGirl9
01/03/14 The Long, Sad Death of Jahi McMath - by CaliGirl9
01/05/14 Jahi McMath: Merely Dead, or Really Most Sincerely Dead? - by KZ
The last independent information the public received on Jahi McMath was Dr. Heidi Flori's January 3, sworn statement as to the condition of Jahi's body, and following that, Children's Hospital Oakland confirmed to The Oakland Press that her body had been removed from the hospital Sunday evening (1/5).
We still do not know to what facility/hospital Jahi's body was moved. McMath's family and attorney have been tight lipped in that regard, but they have been very vocal when it comes to other information they want to tell the general public. I believe the first notification that Jahi's body had procedures to insert tracheotomy and gastric feeding tubes came from Omari Sealy's (Jahi's uncle and spokesperson) Instagram page. Family attorney Christoper Dolan told the press the same thing and the media repeated the information.
On the Faceboook Support Jahi Page, there is a photo of someone (mother? sister?) holding Jahi's hand. I understand that there is supposedly another image of someone holding Jahi's hand, alleged to have been posted on Jahi's sister's Instagram or Twitter account. It is unknown when these photos were actually taken. They could have been taken days or weeks before they were uploaded to the web. We just don't know.
With independent information about this case coming to a standstill, speculation abounds on news reports, message boards and blogs as to where Jahi is and how long it will be before her body's other organs begin to fail completely. Still, there are many issues that I think warrant discussion in this case.
There have been statements made in the comments here that the concept of brain death diagnosis was only made to support organ donation. One of T&T's readers found this study on Pub Med that refutes that claim. It's a good read.
I've started a Jahi McMath Quick Links Page to gather relevant links all in one place. If you have a link that is relevant, please post it on this story and I will add it to the Quick Links. Any and all help in building that page will be appreciated.
I'd also like to pass on some links to a few other documents that hopefully will continue the conversation. There is a good story in the New York Times discussing Jahi's case as well as that of Marlise Munoz: At Issue in 2 Wrenching Cases: What to Do After the Brain Dies?
CLASSIC CASES IN MEDICAL ETHICS, Chapter 14 by Gregory E. Pence
California Health & Safety Code 1254.4
RESEARCH GATE: A clinico-neuropathological study on brain death
Discover Magazine - The Beating Heart Donors 5/2012
The Catholic Key - Sometimes things are not as they seem by Bishop Finn
01/09/14 San Jose Mercury News - Medical Experts Say Organ Failure Inevitable
01/10/14 NBC Bay Area: Friends Believe Jahi McMath "Quiet Leader" is Alive
Friday, January 10, 2014
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142 comments:
Hi Sprocket - you often ask for recommendations to google, but I don't know how to do that? Thanks.
You need to have a Google account/ID, and be signed into Google to recommend a web page on Google.
If you are signed into Google, make sure you are on the page of the specific story you wish to recommend.
Then scroll down the right side of the blog until you come to the heading that says:
FOLLOW T&T on TWITTER!
Right below that, will be a box link you can click to recommend on Google.
The box link will not show up for you, if you are not logged into Google.
If you are in the main page of the blog when you click on the Recommend link, you will be recommending the blog, and not a specific story.
Does that answer your question?
New Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-casarett-md/jahi-mcmath-and-the-dange_b_4574303.html
My last comment giving a link to an article was not published, and therefore I hope that this one will be luckier and get published. Thanks.
One of the reasons I may not have published a link is that it may have been published already by someone else, or that the story was a repeat of the same information reported by another news agency.
The other reason would be if more than one sentence from the story were copied and pasted in your comment.
Sprocket
Anon in Texas here again - catching up.
I just read this story: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html
And this quote: Jose, Jahi’s 10-year-old brother, said his sister “did everything for me."
"She washed my plate. She washed my clothes,” he said.
My heart aches for these siblings. Not only have they lost what he is saying was their caretaker, they are probably hanging out with her corpse. I used to work for CPS and while CPS cannot intervene to help Jahi - I hope they go in and assess the situation for her siblings!
here's a tip where she might be. George Mark Children's House in SF Bay area. It's a hospice. This comes from a comment someone made on the FB page about having a godchild there whose mother met Jahi's mother.
http://www.georgemark.org/
I "personally" feel she is father away than San Francisco. Based on information from Christopher Dolan, she left Children's at 8:30 PM and checked into another facility by 8:AM the next day.
IF, IF, IF, he didn't lie to the public in that statement, then she is farther away. JMHO.
Another person commented that a place called Ryans Place in Phoenix on the St. Joseph's Hospital campus had offered to take her.
@anon 5:17
I saw that too yesterday, but I think the mother of the little boy actually met Latasha Winkfield at CHO, as per pics... end of Dec.
From another FB posting... I mean sorry but it just made me roflmao:
"Would Like To Team Up With The Make A Wish Foundation After Sweet Girl Jahi Gets Well See To It Family Gets Vacation All Friends Waiting Disney Open Arms Walk Red Carpet!!!"
If she is at a hospice, I don't see them doing a gtube or trach placement.
I am feeling what another poster on this blog wrote, "The public morphed from sympathetic to puzzled to disgusted to furious."
Someone else said, "By the way, the cynic in me says look for the Lifetime movie about this in a few months..." To relieve the pressure my mind has turned to humor.
I see a Tyler Perry remake of "Weekend at Bernies" It opens with Momma backing up to the doors of CHO in her new Cadillac Escalade purchase with the "transportation donations" 22 members of the family, all with different last names, pile out and are being directed to load Jahi into the Escalade. I envision a cameo appearance by Al Sharpton in this role....
So I see the latest story, mom has 4 kids, 4 different last names, newly married and now Jahi is at some unnamed Catholic facility. What religion are they, have they said? Thanks.
Seems Dr. Bryne, a Catholic doc they hired didn't agree with them.
A question and a thought, if Jahi is receiving SSI as I have read, when the government finds out that this child is dead will they be able to go after the family for any money sent after she was declared dead or will the clock start when there is a death certificate filed?
I followed one of your links and saw a comment by her 10 year old brother who said that she "washed my clothes and did everything for me". I understand the importance of children having chores, doing laundry for your 10 year old brother doesn't sound like a chore to me. I obviously have no details but I'm still left to wonder what kind of mother thinks it's okay for a 13 year old to do laundry for a 10 year old sibling.
With the change in the public perception of this horrific tragedy, I hope that the media does not learn the name of the facility. Children's End Of Life facilities are few and far between and rely on donations and grants. The circus that surrounds this will not produce a positive outcome for them. Another victim just wanting to do the right thing.
I doubt the body is at George Mark. I have a friend whose daughter goes there for respite care, so I think I would have heard about it from her. And George Mark is in San Leandro, very close to Oakland, so surely someone would have found that out by now and gotten word to the press. People aren't that good at keeping secrets, are they? Though the nearby location would be convenient for the family in the East Bay.
SF Bay Area newspapers report that the coronor said the body was taken out of state. There were also reports in the local press that the drive took 12 hours -- which would make Arizona a very likely location.
Anon @8:12 PM:
Where did you read that Jahi herself was receiving SSI? I've not seen that.
Were the payments made out to her? The mother works at Home Depot; that's my understanding.
If there are several kids in the household - I don't know how many there are - and Jahi was one of the oldest, I can see her having chores to help her mother. JMHO.
I believe the coroner or sheriff said he "thought" or "surmised" the body was taken out of state. I don't remember a media report that specifically stated he "knew" the body left California.
If you can find a media report that indicates either the coroner or sheriff "knew" Jahi was taken out of state, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you!
To the person asking about the family's religion: I don't know, but the school the family's children attend(ed) is the EC Reems Academy in Oakland. It is a public charter school. Ernestine Reems, on the school's board of directors (listed as "director for life"), is the founder and senior pastor of Center of Hope Community Church in Oakland. School and church are adjacent. From what has been reported locally, many of the families at the school are affiliated with the church.
Read more about the school and how they are handling the news about Jahi with her schoolmates here:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html
This is from NBC Bay Area, for what it's worth:
"Her family fought for the right to keep her on life support, and was eventually allowed to move Jahi to an undisclosed Catholic facility that the coroner's spokesman said is 'out of state.'
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html
Here is another article --an editorial in the San Jose Mercury News:
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_24886716/mercury-news-editorial
Thank you everyone. I have a clear memory of the coroner or the sheriff speculating she was taken out of state. Those stories may have been updated.
Thank you everyone.
Omari Sealy's instagram page picture with lawyer.....no words can describe my disgust
FYI:
All comments are moderated before they will appear on the blog. If you don't see your comment right away, please be patient.
Thank you!
Oh wow, these poor poor children being dragged into the fantasy that dead = not dead. That is just awful and imho totally unacceptable for an educational institution.
Why do they allow this to continue, it is now no longer the family but a whole school, kids that need to learn the basics of life (and death for that matter.) OMG! I am SHOCKED
Summary of court filings to date:
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html
"So I see the latest story, mom has 4 kids, 4 different last names, newly married and now Jahi is at some unnamed Catholic facility. What religion are they, have they said? Thanks."
All they have said is Christian. Also this family is trying to claim the moral high ground with their religious beliefs.
@Sprocket, the comment I read about the SSI was posted by Craftylikeafoxx on 1/7/14 at 1:02 a.m., my apologies if I made it sound like I knew that on my own.
I totally agree that Jahi probably helped around the house, being one of the oldest and since her mother works outside of the house. I let my frustration at this situation get the better of me. I did find this article though where she was called mama Jahi, www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24791005/, just food for thought. I can't imagine the horror of losing a child, my frustration is about how this family is handling it.
Best summary:
"3 Ms. Winkfield wants Children’s Hospital, in defiance of state law, to conform to her religious beliefs by compelling physicians to perform surgical procedures on Jahi McMath’s dead body. The First Amendment protects Ms. Winkfield’s freedom to believe that her child is not dead. However, the First Amendment does not permit Ms. Winkfield to act on her beliefs by compelling Children’s Hospital to disregard a facially neutral state law that serves a legitimate state objective. Nor does it allow her to practice religious beliefs in contradiction to Children’s Hospital policies, expertise and the professional ethics of the physicians therein."
http://www.thaddeuspope.com/images/Hosp_Opp_Motion_Compel_tube_01-03-14.pdf
It's one thing to be in total denial about the death of your child. It is quite another when that denial spread to an entire class/school..
I can't help but wonder if this now has something more to do with her anger at CHO.Maybe some twisted form of revenge against CHO.. I can easily dismiss the behavior up unto this as.saying it.is the crazy pro life movement and their.stories about brain dead patients recovering mixed with her extreme grief and denial.. But this latest news is very disturbing.
My comment may have been lost in the last post. I thought I'd mention my speculation of location again.
On uncle beast's instagram, Jan 6, he posted a thank you note, and tagged his location as "CNN building." If you click it, it takes you to map location verifying he in fact is/was in Hollywood. He and Dolan did interview there with piers Morgan. I'm gonna say I am leaning towards the facility is definitely in LA. That location, along with the "best mom" memorabilia picture he posted leads me to this conclusion. I doubt he is not where the body is.
Here is the image with the location:http://instagram.com/p/i2jugVopsw/
Sister posted a pic of hands on instagram but has since deleted the acct. Her polish was purple, and Dr bastard tweeted her hands look pale, and skin slouching etc
One last thing, where is grandma?? She has been very silent, even before the move. Could she have accepted the truth?
Anon @10:18 PM
Thank you for posting a link to more of the documents. I'll be adding those to T&T's SCRIBD account soon.
Serious question:
I saw this on another blog. This is on a normal alive person. Imagine, as awful as it is Jahi McMath. Her Mother stated in an Instagram message she could now kiss her. Isnt she putting herself in danger of many dangerous germs?
https://twitter.com/oddestfacts/status/421888496895557632
There are more germs crawling on your body right now than there are people in the US.—
Here is an LA Times article in which the comments section includes someone posting purported e-mail correspondence between himself and attorney Dolan.
http://discussions.latimes.com/20/lanews/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmath-attorney-defends-actions-20140110/10
I am posting here the e-mail attributed to Dolan, and my response to it that I posted on the LA Times site:
Apples2Apples at 10:45 AM January 10, 2014
My email to Chris Dolan:
On behalf of all of us who are NOT brain dead, please stop the charade of dragging this poor girl through the mud and muck of your power-hungry and money-grubbing delusions. You are certifiable, and I can only hope that the State Bar of California sees fit to sanction you for your brazenly unethical actions. You're a disgrace, and you're the reason that so many people despise lawyers. Disgusting.
First part of Dolan's email to me:
Thank you for your e-mail. You are obviously angry and confused. I helped a woman make a choice. I did not make the choice for her. Had her choice been different, a choice to take Jahi off the ventilators, I would have supported the family just the same. I used the court system. That is ethical. No judge criticized my ethics, and I would assume that they are more familiar with the cannons of ethics than you are.
Perhaps you were unaware that at a press conference two weeks ago, in front of 20+ reporters, that the chance of a meaningful recovery was next to impossible, that Jahi could get worse rather than better, that she would never likely have a normal life. So, I have not led them astray, I have taken direction from them. What makes you think that these people are ignorant such that they would be led around by me? As far as money is concerned, I have not been paid a penny. I have not asked for a penny. I will not accept a penny. I will not represent them in a medical negligence lawsuit.
If you can identify some rule of ethics that you think I broke please do so. I am fairly familiar with them as I have been rated highest in ethics and ability by independent reviewing agencies for well over a decade.
I hope that you can find space in your world to allow this family to have their own opinions and choices. Be careful in giving away the rights of others so freely. You may never know when the rights in question will be yours.
Chris Dolan
g_kuzma at 12:15 AM January 11, 2014
You wrote: "I hope that you can find space in your world to allow this family to have their own opinions and choices."
This is not about allowing the family to have their own opinions and choices. It is about what they have done to the hospital, the court system, the media, and the entire country, all in the name of denial. And, most importantly, what they are doing to their daughter's dead body. People can choose to believe things that are inconsistent with reality, but that's called mental illness. When your child is 6 times confirmed brain dead, and is already decomposing, and you insist that she is alive, you are out of touch with reality. When on top of that you drag a great hospital's reputation through the mud, deny the kindness and accommodations that hospital extended you, rack up bills for maintaining a deceased body that you expect taxpayers to cover, flood the court with pleadings that you also expect taxpayers to cover, and confuse innocent people all over the country about end of life issues, that's just abject selfishiness. Not to mention that they overtly lie on television - for instance telling Nancy Grace it was just supposed to be a simple tonsillectomy. Flat out lie - it was reconstruction of her entire airway via multiple procedures.
Jahi's family is wreaking havoc on everyone with their denial bulldozer.
Uncle certainly was in LA. Doesn't take very long to fly between LA and Phoenix.
First, thanks so much for this informative blog. Like many others have stated, I am unnaturally obsessed with this case and I can't figure out why. Perhaps it's because I'm a mother and while I personally believe she should let go, I can understand how deep her grief must be.
For Sprocket and the other person asking about SSI, funny that should come up because that is exactly what my husband and I were talking about last night. I used to work for Social Security and my husband still does. They will stop payments as soon as they get an updated death index (in other words, when the death certificate gets filed and the state computer sends the information to SSA's computers). The payments end on the date of death, not the date it was filed, so if they get the death certificate a month later or if it's delayed even further, the deceased will still get paid but as soon as the death index gets processed, an overpayment notice will be sent to the family stating that the extra payments must be returned. I hope that clears it up a little.
Unfortunately, I think there are too many dollar signs in too many eyes in that family. I have no basis for such an accusation, just call it a gut feeling. I keep thinking about how much I, personally, have researched brain death and other aspects of this case since it started and how much I've learned, and I'm not even the mother. You would think the child's actual mother would have done at least as much research, and after doing such research it would be illogical to come to any other conclusion than to agree with the doctors. So, so sad.
Sprocket, doesn't the coroner HAVE to be told where Jahi's body was taken? The state, city, name of facility.
Coroner:
We have statements attributed to the coroner in news stories, but in those stories, I don't recall the coroner being quoted
Remember, this is Alameda County. It's not Los Angeles County. I'm sure there are procedures in that coroner's office that are different from LA. And, I don't work at the LA Co. Coroner's office, so I don't know all their procedures, either.
When asking if the coroner would need or require to be told where she is being taken, here in LA, I think about the Lois Goodman Case, where she was charged with murder in the death of her husband, Alan Goodman.
Goodman comes home to their Woodland Hills condo from being a line umpire in a tennis match and getting her nails done. She finds blood on the stairs, there are broken coffee cup shards (I think on the stairs, but at least somewhere in the home) blood in various parts of the house and her husband in bed, dead with head wounds. She calls police.
Goodman tells officers her 80 year old husband had several health issues (I can't remember them all,but I seem to recall heart issues, diabetes, and going blind.). She thinks her husband must have had a heart attack on the stairs and /or fallen down the stairs, hit his head, made his way back upstairs to bed and died there.
The man's age, the age of his wife, (10 years younger) a cursory look around the scene makes it seem plausible to the cops. My understanding of the case is, they do not call for the coroner. They think it's an accident. The body is released to the family, who calls a local funeral home to pick up the husband and plan his burial.
I do NOT know who legally pronounced Alan Goodman dead.
Was the family required to tell the coroner's office, WHERE the body was taken? I don't know. When the body got to the funeral home, the mortician was concerned about the wounds in Alan Goodman's head and called the coroner, who picked up the body and performed an autopsy.
In Alameda County, it is unknown if, one of the conditions for releasing Jahi's body was, for the family to tell them where she was being taken.
Alameda County may know where she is, but that doesn't mean they are required to tell the general public where she was taken.
g kuzma:
I hope everyone understands that your post on 1/11 @ 12:28 AM, was taken from the comments section from an LA Times article, where an individual commenter claims to have corresponded with Christopher Dolan, and then the commenter at the LA Times posted an alleged response from Dolan. After that, it appears that you responded on the LA times article to Christopher Dolan's comments.
Although I posted this extensive comment this time, I did so to show that copying and pasting entire comments like this from another web site can easily confuse our readers here. I won't be accepting comments like this again.
I am politely asking that, in the future, please just post the article link, and mention that the commenter (Apples2Apples) corresponded with Dolan.
Thank you!
Sprocket,
I think it's clear because I stated it in the beginning of my comment that the LA Times commenter claims to have corresponded with Dolan. Since it seemed to legitimately be from Dolan, I thought it might have value for your readers, but I also figured you would use your own judgment about whether it should be re-posted here or not. I surely didn't mean to offend anyone or break any rules - if you hadn't posted it, that would have been fine, too.
Please understand g kzuma,
I'm not upset at all and I appreciate your participation here.
It's all good.
Faith Confronts Economic Reality in Fate of Jahi McMath
http://postnewsgroup.com/blog/2014/01/09/faith-confronts-economic-reality-fate-jahi-mcmath/
Want to learn how to post a hyperlink in Blogger comments?
It's not that difficult.
Here is an easy primer. I have REPLACED the html < > tags, with { }, so pay attention to that.
1. Step one: Here is the starting code:
{a href="
2. Step two: Directly after the " add the URL:
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/
3. Step three: After the end of the URL, type the URL closing code:
"}
4. Step four: Directly after the } type the text that you want to appear:
Trials & Tribulations
5. Step five: Type the closing html tag:
{/a}
Done!
And this is what it will look like when you hit preview or publish:
Trials & Tribulations
I agree 100% with this as hospice is for end of life care and wouldn't do anything to prolong her "life".
I'm sure most have read this article on CNN by Robert Veatch. He responded to a commenter named Brian who questioned his ethics. Mr.Veatch, a graduate of Georgetown U as is Christopher Dolan, is confusing matters more with his 'choice' approach of brain death. He also makes a distinction between circulation of the brain vs. CA definition of brain death & finally he states CA only rids 'choice' from patient's families. He cites Japan (who I think don't favor donating organs but are ok with receiving them) and NJ laws on 'choice' of which kind of 'brain death' to exercise.
I am an Occupational Therapist so I get the all the medical science involved but even he managed to confuse me in this article.
Could someone with both a legal and medical stronghold elaborate on this? I get that Dolan's whole case hinges on CA law of type of brain death & religious 'rights'/beliefs of the family.
I see this guy as making matters worse--and it would be awful to award millions of dollars and change a common-sense law based on general brain death because of this one family's and lawyers greed. I also worry that CHO would be crippled from the loss of money and they are a wonderful hospital, who have served hundreds of thousands extremely well.
Thanks so much and in advance~
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/02/opinion/veatch-defining-death/index.html#comment-1185175362
Finally, someone on CNN is making sense.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/01/10/hln-drew-jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-panel.hln.html
All comments on T&T are moderated. That means, they are reviewed before they appear on the blog. You do not need to submit your comment several times if it doesn't immediately appear.
Thank you! <3
Sprocket
Sorry about the 'several times' but I was having computer problems and it was flashing me out of the site and asking me to comment all over again.
Also, I had problems with choosing my identity.
Sorry.
I don't expect Jahi McMath to be alive much longer. That report from Heidi Flori (dated January 3rd) indicated that her bowel lining was sloughing off and being expelled and that there were no bowel sounds/tones. Being an RN, no bowel sounds/tones means there is no peristalsis (no wave like movement) pushing food through the gut. I guess some of whatever they are now feeding her (which is liquid) will move through the gut but a lot will stay in there. I won't go into detail about what food sitting in a bacteria rich gut will do after sitting there for a while. Suffice to say it will end up shutting her down just as Flori's court papers declared.
It's all good one_blogger. Thank you for joining in on the conversation. <3
Sprocket
In reference to my previous comment. There have been instances of brain dead persons being kept alive for years on ventilators but I have to believe those people were kept alive with TPN-which feeds nutrition directly to the bloodstream and not the gut. If what they placed in Jahi's body was a PEG tube or an NG tube, those feed directly to the stomach and that is where my scenario of certain death from food sitting in the gut comes from.
YoJoLo,
Do you think you could find a reference study, or something on the web regarding this statement:
"There have been instances of brain dead persons being kept alive for years on ventilators..."
I know I would be interested in reading it.
Thanks!
Sorry. In my post of 11:36 I said I didn't expect Jahi to be "alive" much longer. I shouldn't have said alive because I don't believe she is. I should have said I don't expect her heart to continue beating much longer.
There is a photo on twitter going around on the SF CRON commets of what is puported to be Jahi's hand with purple nail polish..
Her skin looks really really dry and her hand looks thin. Has anyone here seen it?
Interesting article:
http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/it-took-32-days-to-decide-what-to-do-with-my-sons-body-thoughts-on-grieving-ethics-and-death/
Kudos to the LAT poster for challenging Mr. D's apalling behavior!
I believe he/she speaks for the vast majority of those familiar with the case. At least I hope so, for the sake of humanity & medical science.
Thanks for sharing.
-CT
YoJoLo commented:
"Sprocket I read The Truth Will Make You Free blog by Dr. Shewmon's and it is very interesting reading. He cites a very young child (4 1/2 years old) that was supposedly brain dead and was kept on a ventilator and the body gave out when he was 20 years old."
YoJoLo,
I snipped the rest of the information since you did not provide a link to what you were quoting. I tried searching for Dr. Shewmon's blog, but could not find anything resembling a blog that he writes himself.
Are you referring to the blog by Robert Conner a chaplan, who has a blog by the same name, who has a post/entry referencing a Dr. Shewmon?
Differences are crucial.
Thanks!
Jacquline,
Links to the two photos that have appeared on Instagram and Twitter are on T&T's Jahi McMath Quick Links Page
Sorry. Blog by Robert Conner but he doesn't comment on all on this whole thing.
Here is the URL: http://robertaconnor.blogspot.com/2011/02/shewmon-brain-or-no-brain-person-is.html
Reflections on the Teaching of Vatican II Through the Magisterium of John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis
It is a: Response to the Council's White paper, "Controversies in the Determination of Death"
D. Alan Shewmon Olive View- UCLA Medical Center
Dr. Shewmon brings in case studies (he was actually involved in some of them) where several people, after the initial instability a brain dead person exhibits, finally stabilize and are kept going for a long time on a ventilator. There is a question and answer session at the end of the blog where neurologists ask Dr. Shewmon a lot of questions.
If you read the whole thing he goes on to say there is very little research on people who can keep going on a ventilator because the person with the diagnosis of brain death is disconnected from the ventilator or the person's heart stops beating. He doesn't say it is morally acceptable just that it is possible but rarely happens.
Like everyone else, I have become almost OCD-like following this story. As a former nurse, 26 years in healthcare, I am appalled and disgusted. Like others, I wish the family would leave this poor child alone.
My feelings about the family started with sympathy, went to annoyance at the denial/arrogance, and now border on rage. If, and I mean IF, a PEG tube was inserted, I wont even describe the processes going on now to her body. Whether this was truly done will be confirmed at autopsy, something required by Alameda County; when she does die, again, back for autopsy.
I think at this point with much less media circus generated by the pimp brothers (attorney/uncle Omari), I cant help but wonder if the whole group have finally figured out they have boxed themselves into a corner and not sure WTH to do now. What started as an emotional and angry rollercoaster, fueled by arrogance and defiance, has now put them in a spot where the entire world will figure out just what a circus they have turned this into and for what? What the family may have done in the postop setting (i.e., feeding food, doing suctioning) will absolutely ruin their malpractice case. All of those supporters who have contributed money to Jahi's transportation out of CHO (56k)will need some sort of accounting, especially if they find out they have been duped and the money was used in large part for frivolous things and not Jahi. Uncle Omari's statement of the 250K cap on damages being "chump change" probably did the most damage. What jury in any part of the country wont see this whole thing for what it really is: not for this child's benefit, but their payday to fame and fortune. That is such a disgrace, and on par with the disgrace of what they are doing to this poor child. I personally believe she is in a long term care facility of some sort, POSSIBLY money changed hands, possibly Dr. Paul Byrne, now retired and fairly immune to AMA prosecution, made this all possible.
Just typing all this makes me enormously sad for the staff at CHO who had to endure providing patient care to a corpse, and I feel even sadder that forever and always, the name Jahi McMath will be associated with this media circus her mother and uncle created. I think she would be horrified at all this, just horrified.
This is her cousin's Twitter account (ref a tweets on Jan 3) - https://twitter.com/REEREESWORLD
Regarding the link you posted about the Angela Clemente video, I believe this is the Angela Clemente that is located in St. Louis, which is where Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital is, a Catholic facility. I would not be surprised if Jahi's body is there.
Deb
And then ...
Admittedly only by speculation on actual cause of death:
Having AGAIN defied Dr.s' advisement & Jahi's best interests- the family will face the guilt of responsibility, for expediting Jahi's "death" a "second" time!
So then what?? Will delusional denial lead them to hide or destroy the body? Resort to Taxidermy to keep up their facade?
In line with an earlier comment regarding a Frankenstein-esque scenario for the "corpse surgeon." Which I agree with the torch chase wholeheartedly!
But I overhead a recent report on TX radio. Actual brains were being stolen from an Indianapolis facility. Apparently they caught the guy responsible by way of EBay. Yes, he was selling the stolen brains on the site!
I will refrain from voicing the ghoulish insinuation in connecting to this case. But i will say, considering the family's lack of credence given to the brain as the core of life. Nothing would surprise me!
-CT
Anon who just posted a link to Dr. Fisher's notes. Thank you.
Dr. Fisher's notes have been posted a few times. A copy has been uploaded to T&T's SCRIBD account and a link to them can be found on
Jahi McMath Quick Links Page
I did see it the other day. (i will look for link of article & add if found)
Her left hand wAs flat, palm down on the bed's surface. The other person's hand was on top of the back of her hand, lacing their fingers in hers... Which were not flexed, or responsive in any manner.
There was a subsequent comment, noting it appeared as though the ring finger was missing the tip! In fact it was visibly shorter, with no nail seen. Skin did seem pale & dry. Polish was old looking.
Whether it was a trick of the camera, or it was unnaturally folded under, IDK.
-CT
T&T has already saved links to the alleged images of Jahi's hand being held by someone.
The links can be found on the Jahi McMath Quick Links page, under the heading
SOCIAL MEDIA.
I, too, have seen the photo of the hand. She is not missing a finger. If you look closely it is a pulse ox monitor on that fingertip. I think I read here that Doc Bastard said it's clear the hand has lost tone and is decomposing. When I saw the post, I thought it was her sister holding her hand. Sad all around.
I found this story on Twitter and it appears to be a similar case where the parents refused to believe their son was dead and were allowed to bring him to a rented apartment to care for him.
If you look at the image of the father kissing the little boy you can see how grey and swollen he is. Is this the state that Jahi would be in at this point? Another article I found says the little boy only lasted a month before his heart gave out and that's where she is about now.
I wouldn't say her fingers are decomposing. The skin appears whitish from the fingertip to the first knuckle which is a sign of poor/no blood circulation. If her nails didn't have polish on them, as an RN I would say her nail beds are probably blueish-thus (probably) the need for the family to apply dark nail polish.
My google-fu is clearly not that great. I found the health and safety code 1274.4 that discusses reasonable accommodation and time for families before removing vent, but where in the code does it say that mechanical support must be removed when patient has died? I've seen it referred to in various postings that it's legally and ethically required not to keep a deceased person on support, but is it spelled out somewhere?
I should probably just get the hell off of Twitter. Trying to argue sense with people who are determined that brain dead isn't dead is really giving me heartburn.
Samantha Pfaff:
The link to the code is on the Jahi McMath Quick Links page, under
RESOURCE LINKS
Here is the section of the code, that indicates they do not have to keep the body on a vent, past a reasonable period of time.
"...through discontinuation of
cardiopulmonary support for the patient. During this reasonably brief
period of accommodation, a hospital is required to continue only
previously ordered cardiopulmonary support. No other medical
intervention is required."
Discontinuation of cardiopulmonary support, would be a vent. Pulmonary=lungs.
Hope that answers your question about where in the code it says the hospital doesn't have to keep the body on a vent.
I came across a better image of her sister holding her hand - https://twitter.com/becwaddell/status/422204270536949761/photo/1
Yes, thank you. So doctors don't HAVE to take a dead person off the vent, but they don't have to remove them either? Am I reading that right? Although I can't imagine a physician would want to keep a deceased person on mechanical support, just from a practical and ethical standpoint. It was just a little confusing to me. I was under the impression that it was illegal to keep a deceased person on a vent for an extended period of time.
Here's an image I found of Nailah with the four kids. My best guess is that Jahi is on the left followed by her older sister, Jabria Milsap, her mother, Nailah Winkfield, her younger brother, Jose Llamas, and youngest sister, Jordyn Johnson.
You said absolutely everything I have been thinking and feeling since this fiasco began.
Samantha,
How I read the code is, doctors are required to keep the decedent on a vent, for a reasonable brief period of time, to help the family adjust, and say goodbye.
That amount of time is described in subsection (b).
The code describes section b as:
"For purposes of this section, a "reasonably brief period"
means an amount of time afforded to gather family or next of kin at
the patient's bedside."
I take that to mean, so that the family can all get to the hospital, and say goodbye.
I don't interpret it to mean, so the family can celebrate Christmas weeks later in the hospital at her bedside.
They must have in their charter /policy /whatever procedures to let the family say goodbye to their loved one.
They are only required by law, to keep them on a vent for that "brief period of time" past diagnosed brain death.
They are required to make allowances for religious beliefs.
" Anonymous said...
I found this story on Twitter and it appears to be a similar case where the parents refused to believe their son was dead and were allowed to bring him to a rented apartment to care for him.
If you look at the image of the father kissing the little boy you can see how grey and swollen he is. Is this the state that Jahi would be in at this point? Another article I found says the little boy only lasted a month before his heart gave out and that's where she is about now."
Anon @ 4:38 posted some interesting articles about this exact situation happening back in 2004. I'm reading another great article here too.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_2429229
Thank you, Sprocket. I can be rather dense at times.
Samantha,
Totally understand. Reading government code of any kind is like putting your mind through a pretzel.
Try reading the California Penal code. It's just as bad.
Family and attorney silent all day. I would not be surprised if Jahi's heart has stopped. How and when will they let the world know?
http://www.quackwatch.org/
This site was in the article posted @8:40
Also those parents were/are Scientologists that took their son home. Not sure what they believe,no Dr.s?
Okay, while I liked this article and I understand how it's frustrating to see this family in denial, the comments about money grubbing and tyler perry movies and questioning the family's religion are not in good form. The family will have to face her death at some point. I don't think demonizing them is helpful.
Obsessions with this morbid tale, and judgments based on pure speculation are just as disturbing as the tale itself.
There are many other things going on in the world that such passion could be focused on that would actually do some good.
Hi Sprocket. I have been reading this story since it started. I remember how some comments were fueled about the Uncle. Omari Sealey. The actions of the supposed "evil white" doctors at Childrens. Well I was able to capture a screen shot of the uncles FB page and he isn't exactly fond of white people to begin with so Im wondering what HIS agenda is. ALL of his photos are pics of his body showing off his torso and promoting healthy eating. Only TWO of them are Jahi and it's the same photo. Here is the link to the one pic on FB. IF you'd prefer the screenshot tell me how I can send it.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151110550463971&set=pb.520913970.-2207520000.1389518086.&type=3&theater
I as well have followed this entire case going from sympathy for the family and progressing to absolute disgust. That being said, this is a great resource.
First; @Anonymous, January 11, 2014 at 10:38 PM
The family has gone out of their way to not just misrepresent but outright lie about Children's, about the doctors, the procedures. Uncle made the comments about the money such as "chump change" and ""Not interested in getting my followers up, just worried about getting them Dollars UP" They lied about a "routine surgery" which we now know it was not. They lied about the hospital refusing to accommodate them when in fact the hospital has gone out of its way to accommodate, including not limiting visitors, allowing a Christmas party, giving them a private room to gather and on and on.
Now I've found an article that is inconsistent with another of Uncle's statements. He has said time and again he found Attorney Dolan after finding his ad and calling him in the middle of the night and he answered. The only attorney that answered in the middle of the night and listened to his story he said.
Christopher Dolan wrote two articles regarding this situation. His quote from his article says:
" Then I got a text. A friend from Los Angeles said there was a man in the Bay Area claiming his niece was on life support and the hospital was going to pull the plug the next morning. Could I give him a call? The account seemed unbelievable, but I made the call. That's when I met Omari, Jahi's uncle. He was desperate. He told me a bit about Jahi and asked me if I had been watching the news. I said no, since I had been working round the clock. I listened to him, turned on the news and saw that he was a real person with a real crisis."
Read his account here in the first article he wrote {a href="http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/a-personal-story-of-representing-jahi-mcmath/Content?oid=2658052"} A personal story of representing Jahi McMath{/a}
Attorney Dolan followed this article with another in which he states multiple times that the hospital tried to "execute" Jahi. "You see, Children’s had fortified itself to carry out its plan of execution. It had cleared out the family from the waiting room, tripled the security, barricaded the front doors and had its plan in place to come into Jahi’s room and turn off a switch that would stop the ventilator and, within a minute or two, Jahi’s heart. Nailah was sitting, praying, as if she were on death row. When I reached her and told her of the stay, I heard her sob, “Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!” She said, “I love my daughter. She’s a good girl, she doesn’t deserve to die.”" This article can be found here; {a href="http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/behind-the-scenes-of-fight-over-jahi-mcmaths-life/Content?oid=2663281"} Behind the scenes of fight over Jahi McMath’s life {/a}
Barricaded the front doors of the hospital? Really? Has anyone heard such an account prior?
It's this and more that has moved me from sympathizing to saying enough is enough and feeling that now this is a huge campaign to demoralize the hospital and the staff. The family has caused this, not the other way around, in my humble opinion.
Anon wrote:
"the comments about money grubbing and tyler perry movies and questioning the family's religion are not in good form"
I entirely agree about the Tyler Perry movies comment - that type of thing is merely denigrating someone's culture. I'm sure there are plenty of upstanding people who appreciate Tyler Perry movies, and plenty of derelicts as well, just like many other genres of film.
However, I do not agree that the "money grubbing" and religious beliefs are entirely off limits. I do agree that comments in these areas should be respectful - e.g. not attacking them for having religious beliefs to begin with. But I think it's legitimate to challenge the way in which these people are using their religious beliefs - because they are using them in a way that I, and apparently others, consider un-religious. They are saying that because they believe God can resurrect their decaying child, that the ENTIRE world should accommodate them. The hospital should have treated them like kings and queens for a month, and since they didn't do so perfectly, well, let's threaten them with civil rights lawsuits and slam them to the high heavens all over the country, despite the many wonderful things they did for us and our daughter. All societal norms about respect for the deceased also go out the window, and they are going to throw this abomination in the face of the entire country, painting themselves as victims of multiple schemes that don't exist. They presumably expect the state of California to pay all the treatment Jahi received before and after she died. They expect the court system to process pleadings all circling around the elephant in the room - their refusal to believe that their daughter has died. So to many, including me, this behavior appears demanding upon societal institutions (hospital, insurance system, courts, media), and disrespectful to everyone in their path who doesn't bow to their denial. Being demanding and disrespectful are NOT consistent with Christian religion! So, in the name of religion, they are behaving in a way that's consistent with no major world religion of which I am aware.
This is especially true given that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that the God of Christianity expects us to artificially and forcibly maintain dead bodies as a demonstration of our faith in his ability to resurrect them. That is ludicrous, and is not a manifestation of religion, it is a manifestation of its opposite: refusal to accept God's de facto decisions about who lives, who dies, when and where.
As to the money grubbing, I think Jahi's family's statements about why they are doing what they are doing are not consistent with what they are actually doing. So people suspect that they have other motives. These motives - financial - have snuck out here and there in public comments made, like posts by the uncle referenced elsewhere, and like their complaining about the quality of name badges they received as a basis for a law suit? These types of things make it appear as though Jahi's family has huge dollar signs in front of their eyes, and that, too, in my opinion, is a legitimate topic for discussion among the public that they so intentionally drew into the whole thing to begin with.
I have been following this blog for days, obsessively I will admit. At the core of it, we are fearful of death and I think that's what keeps me riveted by this story. If Jahi could make a miraculous "recovery" (I believe she is a corpse) I think we can all agree we would welcome it. It can't and won't happen, why can't the family get it? The uncle is well educated as is the grandmother, why do they not see the light? It pains me to see her adorable face in pictures and know that she is being exploited by the very ones who love her.
It's been radio silence for days, I believe her heart stopped and the family will quietly bury her with no media outreach. It's what happens next that is most telling. Will they close the fundraising page? Or let the $ continue to come in? Will they stop smearing CHO and accept it was jahi's time?
FYI, I have had a family member and close family friend have routine and fairly intense surgeries fall into a similar situation, complications after and left brain dead. They were both morbidly obese, with diabetes and other health ailments. Both families pulled the plug with love and dignity, neither chose a lawsuit.
Surgery is a risk for everyone but more so for those we are already not well. Living an unhealthy lifestyle begets these types of outcomes. Rip sweet jahi, you did not deserve these legacy.
Anon. Yes, there are other issues that would benefit from our focus, but this family was responsible for turning this into a ghoulish situation. You say the family will need to focus on her death at some point, and that's right. But, at what point? It has been a month since she was declared, and I am sure they feel a sense of guilt and in denial, but this whole thing isn't about religious freedom. I have followed this, sadly, since day 1 and what started out as grief and guilt, mushroomed into a media circus, the family actually talking about how much money they will expect., and at that point their claims of religious freedom go right down the drain. Their actions before this girl was transferred out of CHO required the staff to perform patient care on a dead body. As a former ER nurse, I can tell you that had I been on staff at this hospital, I would have quit before doing this care. CHO gave the family WEEKS to grieve, and even gather for Christmas, well beyond what any other family has done to my knowledge. The image of money grubbing has been put out there by the family and attorney. The little girl is a pawn at this point, and that is a disgrace to her memory.
Anonymous@10:38
I agree with your comments in regard to demonizing the family but, I think that it matters more that people are discussing end of life concerns. There is a tremendous amount of good that can come from this type of dicussion and passion on a subject that affects, at some point, each and every one of us.
Everyone! Thank you so much for continuing the conversation!
PartsGal,
You almost got the hyperlink code correct. Just replace the
{ } with < >,
and your links would appear. I've corrected your code below:
A personal story of representing Jahi McMath
Behind the scenes of fight over Jahi McMath’s life
There is a link already to Omari Sealy's Twitter and Instagram accounts on the Jahi McMath Quick Links Page.
Any other questions directed at me?
Here's another recent Huff Post article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/ethics-brain-dead_n_4577116.html
Well, this is my first post ever on a site. First of all, thanks to all of the time you guys have spent researching to explain the medical side of everything that has happened with this little girl.
As a mother, I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child, but at this point, my concern has shifted to Jahi's siblings. Does anyone know whether they are in school or wherever their mother is with Jahi? All I can think is how traumatized these poor kids are going to be by this. Besides being terrified of doctors and hospitals, exposing these kids to being around a sibling that is decomposing is going to be a memory these kids will struggle with for a long time. Somehow, this mother needs to shift her attention to the needs of her children that are still alive. Death is not a part of life that we enjoy or want to face especially when it involves a child, but it is a part of life. Admitting that Jahi is gone is not doubting in your faith. Your faith shifts to knowing that she is safe in His arms and that in that knowledge, your faith enables you to go on living in honor of that precious child.
Anon @12:15 PM
Thank you for taking the plunge and leaving a comment.
At this point, we just don't know what's going on with Jahi's body, or her family and siblings for that matter.
There are some who have Twitter /Instagram accounts. Those are small windows into a few of her family members.
Posting to say thank you for this site, the coverage and contributions by commenters.
I live in San Francisco and so became aware of this story as soon as the family went public. Roughly the 15th of December.
FWIW, Chris Dolan was scheduled to be on a local talk radio show today (KGO radio), a full hour and with a local, sympathetic host, as well. He bailed (in my opinion), claiming flu.
The hour went on without him, the gist of it, supplied by the host, was (close to verbatim), "why is everybody being so mean to Chris Dolan, who is only trying to do his job".
If the family and Dolan take such issue with the public response, really all I can add: they put it all out there. It's a while since I have observed such a highly reactive and accusatory public display following personal tragedy.
I do realize they suffered a terrible tragedy, but they are not alone. Many of us suffer very similar losses in our own lives.
I am left with the disquieting thought, that this absolute mess of a case will bedevil us all, the hospitals and courts for some time.
I am very sorry Judge Grillo did not take a strong stand against this foolishness, early on.
Marisacat
San Francisco
Height of delusion:
http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2014/01/09/an-important-comment-on-jahi-mcmath-dr-paul-byrne-and-brain-death/
New facebook prayer page:
https://www.facebook.com/teamjahimcmathpage?ref=stream&hc_location=stream
Anon @ 4:07 PM
I added the link to the Catholic Priest blog in the relevant news articles/stories on the quick links page. But I couldn't help myself from adding a comment that the story was misinformation.
Quoting from the blog post:
Her case, and any “brain death” case in general, is not as simple as the secular media portrays it is. “Brain death”, as used in secular medicine, is not the same thing as “total and irreversible cessation of all brain activity”. In other words, when the doctors declare someone “brain dead”, we are not really sure that a “total and irreversible cessation of all brain activity” has occurred.
END QUOTE
To be honest, I stopped reading right there. I didn't need to read any more of the blog post. This is utter bullshit and misinformation.
Brain death, as we have learned from medical experts like Doc Bastard, and the experts who actually examined Jahi, brain death IS the complete cessation of ALL brain activity.
Without blood circulation to the brain, how in the fork is the brain supposed to work? The answer is, it can't.
Then I did read a few more sentences. Dr. Paul Byrne, to push his own agenda, totally disregards the fact that what he observed in Jahi is easily explained as Lazarus Effect.
This type of misinformation bullshit just makes me want to scream.
I have a legal question: Forgive my slaughter at trying to articulate what I'm asking-- Mom duty overruled my law school aspirations! (;
Here is the prior link of ref for ease on which legal doc:
http://www.cci.drexel.edu/faculty/ssilverstein/1230rrr.pdf
In regards to the Dec 30 Appeal filed for Motion of Emergency Stay. I'm Unclear whether this was the Jan 5 extension in outcome. I do recall one appeal was remanded back to the lower court. But still leaves me curious, if nothing but my legal interest.
2 cases are sited for argument by the petitioner (Dolan). Both of these cases indicate examples of 'brain damaged' patients.
Clearly, this is in direct contradiction to the response of defense. Based upon & supported by evidence per the medical team, on Jahi's official diagnosis and current physical state.
I'm not certain whether at the time of filing, this also included the court appointed independent Neurologist's assessment? But eventually he corroborated the prior medical findings.
Thus medically speaking, and with respect to the current law regarding what constitutes "brain death", i.e., deceased. At the time of filing, & for all intensive purposes, she had/has been proven deceased in mid-Dec. The (predated?) coroner's death report, would also support this.
If this case were, or is still to be heard on principle. Dolan seemed to indicate his intent to see his agenda through to end, granting a family final say on when death has met their personal guidelines. (Smh!)
So would the 2 court cases cited as argument, not then be considered null & void in supporting the petitioner stance?
And on a Appeals Court level, then what?? Dismissed with or wo prejudice/ Heard & appeal denied/ Grant opportunity for redacted brief to cite relevant case rulings?
Would the lower court judge granting the initial stay by extension, have not done so in direct contradiction of the law constituting death? And also in disregard of the Health & Safety Code (Commenter noted earlier)??
I think it's a very important issue of concern, where legal & medical science draw lines between their determinations & powers. Or continue a mutual understanding of what constitutes legal & medical death. Ultimately limiting any grieving & in denial family, from carrying on unethical mistreatment of a corpse. As well as protecting the medical community from the abuse CHO has been legally forced to endure in caring for.
Could such a final outcome, in direct contradiction of actions taken by the family during hospital stay, and more importantly since- have criminal or civil repurcussions? Or for any medical personnel who violated existing laws & ethics by performing procedures on the corpse?
-CT
(Part 1 of 2)
(Part 2 of 2)
Do doctors make mistakes in general? Absolutely, they are "practicing medicine." But fortunately this is in the minority of cases.
I also think it's important we maintain the right for "second opinions," but within norms & realm of reason.
Hypothetically, If I were to question similar findings. Worst case scenario, I would contact an outside trusted (knowledgeable) physician to assess the situation, at my personal expense & effort. And on my behalf, confer with doctors to translate & reassure me. I would not rely on some random attorney, who has admitted to having no medical expertise or knowledge of brain death! And the existing reasonable timeframe in such cases, provides sufficient time to allow for this.
A scary precedence has been established in this case. It needs to be rectified. As is, delusional guilt ridden mom, & greedy famewhore uncle, (bc they think so) can disregard medical science & findings. And with the help of a shady lawyer, navigate & abuse the legal system with flawed lawsuits. Further complicated by and prolonged, having faced a judge confused by medical science, ruled on compassion vs law, and/or fearful of repercussions in taking a moral stand.
On another point. The mom was appointed as ad litem of Jahi. As I understand it, automatically and by default, based on established state law. I'm assuming this law does not dictate specifically in cases of a disputed, deceased body?
Regardless, when factoring the case circumstances, & psychological impact upon-> mother in denial. How can she be considered without any assesment, to make sound decisions solely in Jahi's best interest?
While as a mother myself, I too would expect & want to be designated to act on my child's behalf. But I'm not above human nature in realizing rare & certain cases where emotions might affect logic. And where I don't necessarily agree a total stranger is the answer. A mutually agreed to, removed from direct situation, as acting party is an option.
I strongly feel what is most sad, is that no one has/is acting in the best interest of Jahi's body or memory. With exception of CHO, bc the court stripped away their ability for any discretion.
-CT
@sprocket
I too felt like tearing the hair out in clumps after reading the article on the catholic priest blog. Thanks for posting it.
On 1/6/14, this web site claims that Jahi was moved to an "unnamed New York Facility."
1/6/14 - National Right to Life - Jahi flown to NY Facility
This contradicts Omari Sealy's statement to the press that Jahi traveled by ground to the new facility.
Anon @5:42pm. Today I have learned u cannot change their minds. No matter how much fact u put in their faces, they refuse to stray from their, "God can perform miracles", "she's not really dead" lines. Even those that aren't really religious but are sticking by the Fam will not change their minds. One religious person told me to go eff myself because I pointed out what was incorrect in a pro-Dr Paul Byrne blog. Very Godly.
Anon@ 7:17. You are so correct. Meanwhile, yet another facebook page has sprung up, this one has the goal to help the family and supporters who are in denial:
https://www.facebook.com/TeamJahiAFamilyInDenial
Sorry don't know how to post a link, but there is an article at usatoday.com dated Jan 10th that provides new insight on the minds of Jahi's family. It's titled "Ethicists criticize treatment of teen, Texas patient". It quotes Dolan as stating that Jahi's family knows she is deteriorating and if she starts to decay and is suffering her mother will then pull the plug. Interesting read and it implies that they are beginning to face reality.
Anon @ 7:45 PM
The story you are talking about, is the same one appearing in Huffington Post, (same author) that is listed on the Jahi McMath Quick Links Page
Under the heading:
RELEVANT MEDIA REPORTS
Here's the video on YouTube in which the grandma admits to having suctioned Jahi herself, and that Jahi suctioned her own throat. The grandma gives many details about her perspective on what happened when Jahi was bleeding. I am not a nurse or doctor and can't comment on the medical relevance of the steps that were taken. Anyone? Sorry if this is already posted on T&T, but I sure haven't seen it yet. Thanks everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZhhTWhlW9c
g kuzma,
I added a link to the video on the Quick Links page, under the heading:
SOCIAL MEDIA
Thank you for finding the video.
It's because of all of T&T's readers, that T&T's Jahi McMath Quick Links Page
is becoming an unparalleled resource of information on the case.
Thank you T&T readers! You rock!
This ironically apt quotation attributed to Thomas Paine just about sums up the entire situation and the way it is continuing to unfold: “To Argue With A Person Who Has Renounced The Use Of Reason Is Like Administering Medicine To The Dead.” Good Night, Sprocket, good night, all.
I am doubting that they took her that far. But if you consider the tens of thousands prior stated for the cost to transport by medical flight. It certainly would imply & account for a big chunk of funds raised. Adding to this illusion, Reports that the feeding tube was inserted, and medical defying improvements. Thereby without actually asking for, continue to garner further donations for "continued care."
If false, they should be charged with fraud. For exploiting Jahi, and gross misrepresentations to the public in order to solicit funds.
CT
Anon @ 9:34 PM:
I don't think they took her on a plane either. JMHO.
The co-ordination and logistics, the number of people that would need to be involved... the people flying the plane...
I could easily be wrong, but I just don't see it.
But a single ambulance with a small staff, that I could see.
Hi Sprocket and CaliGirl9
http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/JahiDeclaration.pdf
This is a link to a doc including a statement by Angela Clemente who names 2 Dr's that will take care of Jahi... I don't think they took her to NYC... but maybe, as 1 contributor mentioned, Arizona - Phoenix.
Reason is a message from a family member that spent 17 nights in the hospital and who posted somehwere that she would be taken to the 2nd out-of-state facility, not NY.
I give you her name and twitter account but ask you NOT to publish. One day she'll make a mistake maybe and a lot of publications have been deleted so far by other family members. If you scroll down her twitter acc. you'll see pics of her sleeping (with Omari) in the hospital.
Teayerna Whisenton (FB)
Lovebug830 (twitter)
Warm regards from the South Pacific!
Coconut
Notice of case management conference for April 2nd 2014
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/4:2013cv05993/273213/19
And Nailah Spears' (AKA Latasha Nailah WInkfield) photobucket account.
Maybe that is too much intrusion in their privacy, so just for your and CaliGirl's eyes...?
There's some old pics of Jahi too and wedding...
http://s227.photobucket.com/user/QUEENNAILAH/library/?sort=3&page=1
I don't know if Jahi is in NY right now or not but I was on @DocBastard's Twitter feed last night & a couple ppl mentioned something interesting. NY, like NJ, has a religious exception in their definition of brain death, meaning, if my religion doesn't allow me to recognize the death because heart is still beating, then care is to be given AND insurance has to resume payments. I'm just a lay person so I may have misread but I don't think so.
Page 8 of this Doc under New Youk shows the NY Conscience Clause
This doc may show an exception. Page 3, first to last paragraph, it mentions, families psychological denial of death (NY)
Now my understanding is that Jahi is on Medi-Cal, which is for the state of CA. I'm curious to know if they'll still pay out under NY's Conscience Clause because in CA, her death cert has been filed & she's not a NY resident. This is what I found under the Medi-Cal FAQ under #7
Someone has to be advising the Fam on all these laws. This isn't gonna pay for itself & they haven't raised enough money on GoFundMe to pay for a month. I'm sure the Teri Schaivo fund has kicked in some but the costs on round the clock care for a dead person is going to rack up quick. IF any insurance actually does end up paying, then that would be just wasteful & would be better served to help the living in need rather than the dead.
Interesting blog. I wonder if this person also posted on your blog before?
http://opinionatedgoddess.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/if-you-love-someone-set-them-free.html
@Anon 5:50AM, Yes, I was trying to point this out in an earlier post too. I think lawyer Dolan's case hinges on this very point. He's going to try to sue for millions (go around the $250K cap) bec. he sees the 'loophole' where 2 other states have room for this 'religious' thing. Here's what I think: how can he prove that this family previously held the view that only 'circulatory' brain death (and beating heart) is a tenet of their 'religion'? Is it written down? Perhaps he only has to create a doubt? I don't know but I do know that this is the heart of his case. Of course, this all still flies in the face of any reason simply because if you unplug the vent, the heart stops, so there goes the beating heart. As an atheist, this stuff angers me. It seems like fanatics can just make up the rules as they go along by just crying, 'my religion says I can (or can't) do this' and everyone else just has to pay for it and clean up the mess because we are forced to be' tolerant' of their insanity which is in the guise of their religion. I am sure Bill Mahr will have a field day on this. The whole thing really angers me as it is supremely stupid, selfish and clearly financially driven despite a religious ruse being used.
The "Opinionated Goddess" blogger may have left a comment here, but she is not a contributor or guest writer.
You can see all the people who put T&T together on our ABOUT T&T Page.
T&T's main focus is in-depth coverage of murder trials and crimes involving children. (Child abuse, etc.)
However, any T&T writer can write stories on topics they have an interest in, which is why CaliGirl9 wrote about Jahi McMath.
2 new articles for your archives:
Article 1: http://discussions.latimes.com/20/lanews/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmath-ventilator-20140113/10
The article is unremarkable except for the comments section, where a contributor says (without proof) that UCSF inserted the trach and feeding tubes, and that the body is being mainted somewhere in the Long Beach area.
Article 2:
http://discussions.latimes.com/20/lanews/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmath-ventilator-20140113/10
In the Jahi McMath QUICK LINKS PAGE,
The very first link will take you to all stories the Los Angeles Times has run on the Jahi McMath debacle.
Try it.
LA Times Jahi McMath Articles
The new LA Times article is not releasing any new information. It's just rehashing stuff that's already been said before.
Everyone is frustrated because there is no "new" information about this case.
We may not hear anything for some time. There will never be a satisfactory resolution for this family since they lost their child /sister /cousin /friend.
Clinical denial is a very powerful emotion. The brain goes through mental gymnastics to protect the person from going where that person cannot go, emotionally.
JMHO.
@Sprocket. I agree fully with your observation about the "new" LA Times piece. The only reason I posted it was because of the comments portion, claiming UCSF involvement.
Meanwhile here is another piece from the diary of an RN working in intensive care --an article in the NY Post:
http://nypost.com/2012/12/09/diary-of-an-intensive-care-nurse/
Warning: A bit graphic at times and not for the squeamish.
http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-case-has-alarming-new-details/
Thank you Em.
I'm adding the Guardian LV article to the quick links list. Despite the headline's claims, the article is 3 days old and does not contain any different information than the articles already posted.
Agree with Sprocket that there will not be any new info for quite some time (until the lawsuit(s) begin?).
How diabolical to move location and then not disclose new location; how cleverly choreographed the chain of events. We see criminal masterminds in movies dumber than 'team Jahi'.
Behind the stereotypes, the actors in this situation are very smart people -- it would not surprise me if the highest courts get involved in the resolution, most likely many years from now.
And it would not surprise me if team Jahi at least partially win.
T&T Readers:
T&T Reader "VenomousFeminist" has reviewed the court filings and has written up a summary of what has happened in the case so far. VF sent her write up to me via E-mail.
I will work on getting the entire write up inserted in the comments.
New tweet from Nick Smith News:
#New: "#Jahi continues to be treated medically and is doing well. We're staying out of media unless there is a huge update." Says family.
thank you for this blog.
Seems people are getting fed up with the fund raising...
From Gofundme:
$5.00Phillip Wiglesworth2 hours ago
I am donating the bare minimum of $5.00 (I tried to donate a dollar, but apparently $1.00 is too cheap for Jahi's mother...it MUST be at least $5.00) so I will be able to join the class action lawsuit against this mother for fraudulently taking all this money and using it for false pretenses. The child died December 12th, 2013. Claiming you are using this money "to give medical treatment to a living person" is as fraudulent as you can get. I can't wait to see you go to prison. By accepting my $5.00 donation, you agree to use the money for one purpose and one purpose only: the medical treatment to sustain life of one living person, Jahi McMath. If it is discovered that you use my money for any other purpose than what you are soliciting it for, God help you.
So, this was just posted on Twitter 2 hrs ago
https://twitter.com/brpaulodonnell/status/422903040916455424
(Hopefully my link shows up. Haven't had much luck)
A reminder. All comments are moderated. I approve them as soon as I can get to them.
The Guardian Liberty Voice article from the link given by Em @ 11:54 says this closer to the end of the article
"The young teen’s present condition has been described as severe and even though she is being given fluids and minerals, she is suffering from a condition that stops a feeding tube from being inserted. Numerous medical authorities believe that McMath’s body may have deteriorated to the point that any attempt to introduce nutrients into her body other than intravenously will result in aspiration—a very serious complication"
Where did this news of a condition where a feeding tube can't inserted come from? And what kind of specific condition prevents that? And since she has a breathing tube in place, their wouldn't be a chance of aspiration. Aspiration is liquid or solids entering the lungs. A breathing tube (if done properly) completely blocks the opening into the lungs and prevents aspiration.
What the heck is going on?? Inquiring minds want to know!
I'm not surprised that priests, friars, brothers and reverends are all jumping on the
(Saying this with my best Scarlet O'Hara voice...)
"Jahi is alive!!! Jahi is alive!!!"
bandwagon. I personally believe they have an agenda.
I'm a spiritual person. I believe in a higher being, but I"m not blind in that belief.
When sources are not quoted in an article, and there are just "statements" made, start questioning the authenticity and accuracy of the piece.
The family isn't talking, the attorney isn't talking, tweets and instagram accounts are cryptic.... you just have to take everything you read at this point with a grain of salt.
Sadly, we just don't know and probably won't know for some time.
Sprocket, one of my Sisters is extremely Fundie religious. She believes in asking God's permission for big life changes. I love her but we never talk religion for obvious reasons. Anyway, I was shocked when I went to her house tonight and she said she couldn't understand why the Mother could not let her go to Heaven & be w/God since she's dead. I was super shocked. She mentioned that God doesn't bring the living back and again I was shocked. I felt her attitude (my opinion) was that Jahi's Mother was making a mockery out of religion. She said she understood a Mother's love but that it was past time to let go. Whoa!
Anon @8:21 PM:
This is what clinical denial looks like. I believe it's all about revenge at this point. I don't think her actions are rational, jmho, so for me, it's clinical denial.
I don't think "everyone" in the mother's inner circle of support is in clinical denial, but they probably believe they would be "betraying" the mother if they tried to slap some sense into her.
JMHO. I don't have any insight into this family, their thought process or their motives.
So, you were shocked that your sister was so "rational" about this?
I'm taking a sewing break now. I have to get some orders out tomorrow.
I'll be back in a few hours to approve any new comments.
Sprocket @8:15pm. This is the perfect response to the Jahi is alive crowd. It was on Dr Bastard's Twitter feed yesterday.
It's from Father Jonathan Morris on Fox News.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/3019259511001/father-jonathan-morris-weighs-in-on-jahi-mcmath-case/#sp=show-clips
How does "Brother Paul" in MN come by such intimate knowledge of her condition, I wonder?
Anon provided this Thomas Payne quote:
“To Argue With A Person Who Has Renounced The Use Of Reason Is Like Administering Medicine To The Dead.”
Fantastic. Couldn't be more à propos.
Thank you!
Neurologist here again. I just looked up the distance between Oakland and MN....looks like 26-30 hours, depending on the town.
That would fit, wouldn't it?
The comments on this story are now closed.
If you would like to comment on this case, please go to the new entry, where a licensed California attorney, T&T reader VenomousFeminist explains the court filings and legal rulings.
Legal History of the Jahi McMath Case
Thank you!
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