T&T is fortunate to have one of our readers, VenomousFeminist, a California attorney, explain the court documents and rulings in the Jahi McMath case. I have verified that VenomousFeminist is a real attorney, licensed with the California State Bar. Sprocket.
Prior stories:
01/01/14 Jahi's Legacy - by CaliGirl9
01/03/14 The Long, Sad Death of Jahi McMath - by CaliGirl9
01/05/14 Jahi McMath: Merely Dead, or Really Most Sincerely Dead? - by KZ
01/10/14 Jahi McMath: A Body in Limbo - by Sprocket
LEGAL HISTORY OF THE JAHI MCMATH CASE
by VenomousFeminist
There has been a lot of confusion about the court proceedings in the Jahi McMath case, and a number of questions as to why Judge Grillo extended the initial temporary restraining order (TRO) out to January 7, nearly 3 weeks after the initial TRO was granted. I think part of the confusion is that this case has been heard now in three separate courts – the Alameda County Superior Court (state trial court), the First (Second? – the pleading captions vary) Appellate District Court (state sppeals court) and the District Court of California (federal trial court). Let me see if I can sum up the actions that have occurred in each court, and their outcomes, thus far, to help clarify why the extensions were granted, and by which court. I’m not going to address CHO’s response unless someone is unclear on their position and specifically asks for clarification, nor am I going to address the merits of the arguments made.
Alameda County Superior Court (incorrectly identified as “Oakland County” by Petitioner in one pleading):
12/20/13 Hearing – ex parte hearing on initial request for Temporary Restraining Order (ex parte means the requesting party doesn’t have to give advance notice to the other side, and can have a hearing without the opposing party present, something that is usually not allowed. The court disallowed the ex parte request and requested CHO to submit a response prior to the hearing) [Winkfield v. Children’s Hospital Oakland Exhibits Part 1, filed 12/30/13 pgs. 8-74]:
On 12/20/13, Jahi McMath’s family (Plaintiff or Petitioner) filed a request for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) and a request for a court order to force the hospital to provide medical treatment for Jahi. Specifically, the request asks the court for an order to prohibit the Children’s Hospital of Oakland (CHO) from discontinuing ventilation (this is a temporary request initially, with the further request that after the hospital has a chance to respond, it be made permanent), and further asks the court to order the hospital to provide a feeding tube, antibiotics and any other medicines that would support organ function. At this time, the Petitioner’s court documents describe Jahi as in a comatose condition with brain damage. They also ask for time to get another opinion on treatment and prognosis for Jahi.
There are three main arguments advanced by petitioner in this document:
- 1. California law gives the McMath family the right to make medical decisions for their minor child, including the decision to continue ventilation, and if the hospital and family can’t agree, the hospital must make arrangements to transfer the patient (Jahi) to a facility that will provide the requested treatment. Petitioners cite various provisions of the California Probate Code to support these arguments.
- 2. There must be evidence that withdrawing life support is in the best interests of the patient or in compliance with their wishes, that when the patient can’t decide for herself, a family member can make that decision, and when the patient’s wishes are unknown, California law errs on the side of preserving life. A number of California appellate cases are cited to support these contentions. None of these cases involve brain dead individuals.
- 3. CHO has a conflict of interest, and shouldn’t be able to benefit by turning off the ventilator because by doing so, they limit their potential damages in a malpractice action. Interestingly, they state on pg. 25, line 8, “[h]er daughter died . . .” No statutes or case law are cited to support this argument.
Along with the petition for the TRO, the plaintiff filed a proposed order (this is typical practice), which the court chose NOT to sign. Typically the court will either sign the proposed order, or have one of the attorneys draft an order for his/her signature. There’s an image of the areas of the proposed order with items crossed out in the above link that I find quite interesting. The court in the signed order, declined to order medical treatment as requested by the McMath family, and declined to find that all the facts and allegations in the petition were true and correct. There are other deletions on the proposed order that are worth looking at as well to get an idea of how limited in scope this initial TRO actually was. (pgs. 46-47)
What the court does order is for CHO to maintain the status quo (i.e. ventilation) until an independent determination of brain death can be made. The court does NOT order that the hospital leave Jahi hooked up to a ventilator indefinitely, nor will it order additional treatment for Jahi. Essentially, what the court does is say, yes, there is a presumption towards preserving life in CA, so let’s get an independent expert in here to resolve the issue of brain death so there’s no question about it on appeal. A status conference is set for 12/23/13 so the parties can pick an expert. This is a “win” for petitioner only in that it buys them time to get their own expert – Paul Bryne – before the court.
12/23 Hearing – Alameda Superior Court (pgs. 76-93 of the above link)
Petitioners request that Paul Bryne is appointed as the independent expert to determine brain death, despite the fact that he’s not licensed to practice medicine in California. They also ask again for a permanent order to prohibit the hospital from removing ventilator support, and for an order requiring the hospital to insert a feeding tube and provide additional medical care as requested by the McMath family.
The arguments advanced in this document are as follows:
- 1. California allows patients to determine their own medical care, and if they can’t, their family can decide for them. This argument, and much of the case law, is simply recycled from the first brief. Again, none of the cases deal specifically with brain death.
- 2. Latasha Winkfield has a Constitutional right to make health care decisions for her child and force medical providers to comply with her requests. No statutory or case law is cited to support this argument.
The court again orders “status quo” until December 30 and appoints Dr. Fisher as the independent expert, which is a huge loss for Petitioner as they were really focusing on getting a feeding tube in place and in granting Jahi’s mom unlimited decision making power over Jahi’s future medical care. A hearing is set for the following day so they can go over Dr. Fisher’s report. Petitioner’s request to appoint Dr. Bryne is denied. (Modified TRO12/23/13 )
12/24/13 Hearing – Alameda Superior Court
The court issued a written order detailing the reasoning for its findings. This is typical when it is expected that such an order will be appealed. (Winkfiled v. Children's Hospital Oakland, Exhibits Part 2, filed 12/30/13 pgs. 60 of 77 through end)
The court denies the Petitioner’s request for continued ventilation and for decision making authority (essentially being able to require the hospital to provide requested medical treatments, such as a feeding tube). This order also gives some insight into the information provided to the court at the various closed-door hearings.
Judge Grillo admits that while the statute doesn’t specifically require that one of the two physicians making a finding of brain death be unaffiliated with the hospital, because of the allegation of conflict of interest raised in the initial brief, he decided to order a third evaluation for brain death by a doctor unaffiliated with CHO.
The hearing on December 24 was again a closed door hearing (the closed door nature of the hearings, and the sealing of the medical records admitted into evidence, was at the request of Petitioners) where the findings of Dr. Fisher were addressed, and testimony by one of the CHO doctors who originally made the finding of brain death was heard. It should be noted that the court states “petitioner’s counsel stipulated that Dr. Fisher conducted the brain death examination and made his brain death diagnosis in accord with accepted medical standards.” Basically, Mr. Dolan agreed that the determination of death complied with California law.
There was a slight kerfuffle when Mr. Dolan requested a continuance so he could review Jahi’s medical records (which he had recently received) with his expert witness, which was denied by the court on the grounds that it wouldn’t be relevant to the issue of whether the brain death determination was legally sufficient. This issue reappears later.
The court, at 5 p.m. on Christmas Eve denied the Petitioner’s motion, and dissolved the TRO effective on December 30. The reason the TRO remained in effect until December 30 was to allow the parties time to file an appeal, which the Petitioner did.
State Court of Appeals
12/30/13 – Petitioners file an appeal to the State Court of Appeals. (Writ petition)
The Petitioners request to extend the trial court’s order keeping the ventilator on while their appeal of that order is pending. As part of this request to extend the TRO, the court documents allege there is a facility in New York (probably New Beginnings) that is ready to take Jahi and treat her, and that there is an examining doctor who indicates that Jahi is not suffering from irreversible brain damage.
The second part, the actual grounds on which the lower court order is appealed, is based on the following arguments:
- 1. The law allowing the hospital to discontinue respiratory support after a finding of brain death violates Petitioners’ rights to freedom of religion and to privacy under the California Constitution. The analysis of this argument is basically the same as was alleged in Petitionerss briefs to the lower court – an individual’s right to privacy guarantees them the right to make their own health care decisions – the new argument is that turning off the ventilator and refusing to insert a feeding tube would violate the religious beliefs of the Petitioners. The case law cited is again virtually identical to that cited in the lower court briefs. There is no case law cited to support the argument that turning off the ventilator would violate the Petitioner’s religious beliefs.
- 2. It was a violation of the Petitioners’ Due Process rights for the trial court to deny Mr. Dolan a continuance to allow time to review medical records. There is case law cited which generally states what is considered to be due process. (I did tell you this issue would come back up.)
District Court of California
12/30/13 – At the same time that the appeal is filed in the California court of appeals to overturn the lower court ruling denying the request to continue ventilator support and to place a feeding tube, Petitioner also filed a federal lawsuit alleging violation of civil rights and various federal laws which apply to persons with disabilities and again requests a order to keep the vent on and to order a feeding tube. (Federal lawsuit alleging violation of civil rights)
Since this is essentially a complaint, a statement of fact which also says various laws have been violated, there is no case law required . None of the causes of actions (laws that were violated) are substantially different from what has previously been addressed. The Petitioners’ position has remained consistent – put in a feeding tube, keep the vent on, and allow Petitioner to dictate what medical procedures will be performed by CHO.
(As an aside, this complaint refers to privacy rights as being granted by the 4th Amendment. While the 4th Amendment does grant the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, the privacy rights being addressed here are typically recognized under the 1st Amendment. This isn’t really relevant to the legitimacy of the underlying argument, but it’s more evidence of the sloppiness and tortured logic seen throughout Plaintiff’s pleadings).
On December 20, 2013, the district court issued a written ruling in reply that grants part of the request, and denies part. The court outright denied the request to insert a feeding tube, and set a hearing on the issue of whether ventilation should be continued. That effectively extended the right to keep Jahi on the ventilator until that 1/7/17 hearing. Basically, the order mirrors the state trial court order to maintain the status quo until both sides can be heard.
As we know, this 1/7/14 hearing never happened because Jahi was transferred out of CHO per a mediated agreement before the hearing could happen. As a result, the TRO was denied, and the underlying case mooted.
- VenomousFeminist
308 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 308 of 308 Newer› Newest»Hello All
New to the forum and find it most informative.
I would like to comment on the posts about the gofundme donations.
I do not believe this is the only fund out there that is funneling money to this family.
I can only speculate but in a Los Angeles Times article I read that the Mother was a Home Depot employee. If this is true, I can tell you they have probably collected money from them as well.
How can I guess at this? I was an employee for Home Depot for twenty years.
They have a catastrophic fund account called the "Homer Fund". All employees are encouraged to donate from their paychecks bi monthly. The amount's of donations raised outside of the company are MATCHED 100% by Home Depot.
The unit that Jahi's Mother works at would turn in the request to the corporate office in Atlanta. And a check simply written to her. I have seen this fund used for many things over the years, and this situation is exactly what it was conceived for.
Thank you anon @1:34 PM:
Just to clarify:
Whether or not Jahi's mother accessed a possible benefit provided to Home Depot employees is speculation.
We just don't know.
Yes Sprocket...That's why I inserted that term. Thank you for posting my comment.
I've found out where the person who owns that FB page lives in addition to her email address. I'm still looking for where she's employed.
Thanks Suzi,
Continue whatever research you want, but T&T won't publish any of that information.
<3
Two more articles:
1. A christian doctor from Boston
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/mortalmatters/2014/01/when_am_i_dead.html?camp=rss%3Ahealth&dlvrit=834439
2.From a Santa Barbara paper dated today:
http://www.independent.com/news/2014/jan/19/when-dead-dead/?on
Anon @3:56 PM
I edited out your comment (below) to exclude the personal information of Michelle Brewster
Sprocket
Anon @ 3:56 PM said...
I also read through her comments - no real details. Remember, anyone can post anything on the Internet. She has posted numerous times on that WRON4 site about a variety of topics. Very sketchy about Jahi - her comments are not at the same level of depth of information/analysis and/or scientific specificity as I see on this site from posters.
[deleted text]
Unless, the whole thing is a sham!!!!!! That's what so tricky about social media information.
Marisacat:
I truncated your post to exclude the personal information that may or may not belong to Michelle Brewster.
Unless I seeinformation about Michelle Brewster in a mainstream news article, please do not post any information that may or may not belong to her here. Thank you! <3
Marisacat said....
FWIW, I just checked in at All Nurses and someone there posted about comments at the KRON Facebook, the ones purporting to be from a Brewster (I have already forgotten the first name used...)who is a medical professional [supposedly] and [supposedly] works at the supposed site where Jahi is.
Shakey ground, all of it, obviously.
[deleted text here]
Thank you everyone for the information you are finding.
NURSES ROCK!
I am just hesitant to publish this information on T&T. No matter what this individual has said, no matter what information is available via public records, she does have the right to privacy.
Thank you every one.
JMHO but I think quack Byrne's latest claims (above article) are quite telling. Sounded to me like just a bunch of back pedaling groundwork to salvage his "reputation." So when the inevitable reality comes to light, he has someone else to blame.
I also think the scientific reasoning (noted above) from decomposition, as explanation for rising body temperatures, is far more logical. I would imagine also, if they really are pumping food into her system- there would be all sorts of toxic reactions occurring from rotting & leakage into the gut, potentially causing reactive heat. A guess only.
I see this eventually progressing into regurgitating what was just said: Oh gee, we did manage to restore her ability to regulate body temp. BUT bc CHO did this, and neglected to do that, our efforts were futile in long term recovery. Maybe going so far as to claim "It's alive!" But the earlier negligence ultimately "re-kills" her at some future date.
Sadly, I think Jahi is nothing but a guinea pig for Frankenstein-esque experiments. And he saw the perfect opportunity in a very public & delusional family.
What's most unfortunate is the judge made this situation even possible. The case arguments cited were moot. It went against law, safety codes, ethics, medical science, & even a court appointed expert opinion.
I do hope CPS have checked on any minor siblings well being.
I do commend you @Dave for taking action. Very well put. Quite an interesting response, seems you had them taking you very seriously. It very well may have been the recourse needed to make a move to resolve the situation. It says much about your character in taking interest and following through. More often people tend to ignore that which does not directly affect them. Or have the intent, but fail to act upon. Well done. (:
-CT
Just read the LAT Op/Ed by Dolan. One of the commentors mentioned that there are legal docs stating Dolan is in the process of suing CHO to recoup the legal fees he never charged McMath's Family for, basing it n CHO's refusal to support McMath's religious freedoms. The comment or posted no links & I've Googled & found nothing. So sorry if this has been posted & I missed it but does anyone know if this is true & if there are any links to docs?
Thank you
DM2
Which one is better and for whatever reasons may slightly be accepted by the society?
1) A doctor who is deeply religious, who really believes in his perceived faith so he rejects the whole idea about Jahi being dead without having any intention of monetery gain at all. It's just his belief that shapes his attitudes and thinking.
OR
2) People (family members, friends, attorneys) who publicly refuse that Jahi is dead but in their heart know that Jahi has long been gone but still trying to solicit money from public and will sue the hospital because their main agenda is money, money, and money?
DM2, what you are looking for is in the QuickLinks for this case: 12-30-2013 McMath Civil Rights Lawsuit Filing.
It's near the end of the document, which lists what actions shyster lawyer claimed would be the way he wanted the judge to rule.
You know, Byrne's claim in his latest fantasy tale of a corpse regaining brain function is scientifically unprecedented (as far as I know). It is an absolutely unique occurrence for any type of brain function to be regained after this amount of time after brain death. Wouldn't he want the scientific world to take notice and to study this?
I'm actually thinking that this "self-regulation" that they ("direct observers including at least one doctor") "observed" might be due to something as silly as they are filling her stomach full of hot chicken soup. There really is no way to tell.
The do indicate that these direct observers have seen the body very recently. I wonder if Byrne was contacted if he would reveal his current location? I bet he is probably the only MD that could bypass the obvious ethical problems with all of this due to his religious beliefs.
CaliGirl9
Thank you very much.
DM2
Dolan defends Jahi's family in LA Times op-ed:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0121-dolan-jahi-mcmath-brain-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2r0Krmcki
Just wondering, in the States, is it that easy to just sue anyone and get money without valid reasons?
If Jahi's death is really due to complications from her complicated surgery, can the family still sue? Complications happen all the time. And before doctors did surgery, I'm sure her parents were asked to sign consent forms.
If Jahi's death is caused (and if later proved) because of suctioning by family members, can they still sue? If yes, based on what?
Some commented about the possibility of this dispute to be settled out of courts. Does it mean the family will receive undisclosed amount of money from the hospital? If the hospital is not at fault, why would the hospital still pay the family? Isn't the purpose of consent form to protect hospitals from lawsuits?
If in the end CHO settles with the family to prevent future litigations, does it show that people can just sue anyone they want and gain money out of it?
is this in your quick links? i didnt see it. its the cease and desist letter from dolan to CHO. in it he twice refers to jahi as winkfield's son! how is that possible? wow.
http://www.cbdlaw.com/Letter-to-CHO.PDF.pagespeed.ce.HshywEUiZF.pdf
g kuzma:
It's a typographical error. They happen in letters attorneys write all the time.
A new post in the opinionated goddess blog:
http://opinionatedgoddess.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/enough-is-enough.html
FWIW, Normally, T&T does not approve comments where there is a link to a web site or blog, that is not a mainstream media /news organization.
This is more of a question than a comment that I'd like to direct to someone in the medical profession. Would a brain dead individual being sustained by artificial means and being given "nutrition" as Jahi supposedly is either lose or gain weight? Would that still occur in her current state of death?
Anon @10:33 AM:
The intestines no longer work. They are slowly "slogging" off.
I can't imagine that a dead body gains weight when the dead body's digestive process no longer works.
You have to take everything that comes from the family as bias. "Nutrition" may really be, chemicals and hormones to artificially maintain her temperature and the functioning of the remaining organs.
I'll see if I can get CaliGirl to drop in and respond.
Would HIPAA cover the deceased?
- Cherlyn
Yes, HIPPA covers the deceased (I believe) for 50 years after death.
There is a link to the HIPPA law on the Quick Links page. You will find it under
RESOURCE LINKS - Information Websites
JMHO.
This person is saying Jahi has been buried. twitter account:krissynaners
No idea if it's true or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is and the family will continue to claim she's alive.
Article in Christianity Today arguing why brain death is not "real" death:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/january-web-only/medicine-does-not-know-what-dead-is.html?paging=off
JMHO:
It's highly unlikely that this twitter post is true.
Do y'all who have been reading her for so long, really believe that this highly public family (a family who put themselves in the public eye)
would have a completely private funeral?
JMHO, I think this family would use every opportunity to sway public opinion, even the funeral of Jahi.
All for any future legal proceeding.
Those of you who love to search for things, has a burial permit been issued?
Difficult to get around that, imho.
Old critical care RN, The easiest way to understand how weight gain is possible for Jahi's corpse is simply more in than out. I have never cared for a corpse long term but I have watched many patients transition from living to dead. The brain is responsible for this intricate and complicated dance of homeostasis. It would take several very large books to even scratch the surface. One player is albumin. Albumim is a protien in our blood that has many jobs. One of these jobs is keeping fluid where it belongs. The majority of our fluids are maintained in 1) blood vessels, 2) inside cells, 3) between cells. If low Albumin levels leads to a major shift of fluids into the space between cells and you keep giving intravenous fluids a significant weight gain is possible. Sorry if this is disjointed it is very hard to describe in a short pieces without a lot of medical terms.
Thank you Tanya for taking the time to answer that question.
Sprocket.
Several of the articles on the links page quote doctors saying that brain death criteria were only developed to allow hospitals to harvest organs. Others state that although her brain is dead, Jahi's body is still alive. Both of these are false statements, based on other resources posted on the links page. Are these doctors just stating their opinion, or are they not taught about brain death during the years of education they have to go through to become a doctor? I can see how people could become confused - when a doctor says it we assume it is true.
Anon @1:14 PM:
Anyone can say just about anything in an article. Usually, an opinion piece clearly states it's an opinion.
Not all doctors agree on everything, regardless of the fact all 50 states have legislation stating hospitals must develop accepted policies for determining brain death.
watched an episode of grey's anatomy last night on netflix, this episode featured a patient with munchausen syndrome, a thought accurd to me.... why is it, when dealing with someone that may or may not be suffering from munchausen's, the medical professionals DON'T fiddle-bleep around or play games with said patient. so, why is it that this family's DELUSIONS have been catered to since day one.... WHY?!?!?..... sorry, got a little excited :)
Sprocket,
Thank you for deleting my comments with personal information about the WRON poster who is possibly a nurse. I agree with you about maintaining her privacy as we do not know if that poster is really her or someone has appropriated her information. This is the right way to go.
One thing that I would like to remind folks and there was a poster named Arefact or something like that who also had a wonderful way of looking at this - no matter how you view the world, black and white, mixed, balanced, she's alive, she's dead, all that is is a point of view. Some one else's point of view belongs to them and should be respected as much as possible. Another point of view may not appear logical to you but may to others. Try not to attack the family members. So many who responded to the most recent Christopher Dolan piece in the LA Times bordered on racist and many crossed over the line.
Very good piece in the Boston Globe with a balanced look at this. I can tell that the author is compassionate and respects the point of view of others even when he does not agree. http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/mortalmatters/2014/01/when_am_i_dead.html
Thank you Anon @4:14 PM. Moderating anything, be it a community forum, message board or comments is a thankless job.
One is always bound to upset someone.
Understand that T&T has worked long and hard to build a reputation among other journalists as the "go to" source for in-depth reporting on a criminal case.
However, T&T does not have the resources of an attorney on staff, -in the rare instance that someone decides to sue T&T- for their personal information being broadcast, or some other arcane reason.
T&T likes to err on the side of caution when dealing with anyone's personal information.
T&T would rather let the mainstream media (with their legal department budgets) report this information first.
@Sprocket, thanks for the great blog. I think you're awesome, and I have really enjoyed the opportunity to comment, and to read comments on this bizarre, mind-bending case!
Anon @4:14 His name is Artefact I have read many of his comments as well.
Someone posted OpinionatedGoddess post from her blog, it was good.
I have yet had a friend or family member know about Jahi's case, but I feel like if/when they do I will have a very strong opinion.
Let the girl rest in piece already! I have read so much on this case, I feel I could sway a "normal" persons opinion.
Sprocket,
Also thank you for this blog. I have also read quite a few of the other cases as well. Very informative and well put together.
I'm a crime sleuth and never knew blogs like this existed.
So thank you and the other writers.
"Sherlock"
Thank you everyone for your kind words. Thank you to everyone who has written me personally to share your thoughts and links. T&T is a labor of love.
Sherlock:
There was a "Sherlock" who participated on Internet crime forums, years ago. I take it you are not the same 'Sherlock?'
figs:
IMHO, CHO bent over backwards to help Jahi's family. They are to be commended for their sensitivity, for the loss of Jahi. I'm sure when Jahi's mother was first told her daughter was brain dead, her mind could not deal with it. The pain was overwhelming. When I go back to that moment in time, my heart breaks for this family. They are suffering, grieving.
However, when you are dealing with the possibility of a criminal action, I totally understand why hospitals, medical professionals raise the alarm when they suspect Munchausen's. That's attempted murder.
A new post from the website of a pediatrician who was involved in a case of brain death and had to keep a body on a ventilator for 6 weeks due to pressure from family members:
http://www.chrisjohnsonmd.com/2014/01/21/on-brain-death-and-the-jahi-mcmath-story/?utm_content=buffer5bb65&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
A new study about routine tonsillectomies (Jahi did not have a routine one) reveals that quality of care and complications varies greatly from hospital to hospital. http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/20/routine-tonsillectomies-not-so-routine/?hpt=he_c2
Thanks again for offering a place where distinguishing between is factual about this case and others and what is opinion is highly valued. The facts are fascinating and so many unanswered questions.
OH NO!!!!! Is this the END of this blog?? Sproket, Hello....
ANYONE???? I have been loyal to this blog regarding this tragedy.
Throughout the day, everyday, I'm on it. I feel as if I know everyone who has posted since the beginning. Thank You to all for the respect and the bloggers who have shared their story and NURSES who have enlightened me in the medical profession.
Anon @8:08 PM
T&T is not going away.
The posts covering the Jahi McMath case are not going away.
I've spent time and energy building the Jahi McMath Quick Links Page. That will be on the blog for eternity.
T&T will continue to follow the story as we learn new information.
1. From Time Magazine:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2162277,00.html
2. From Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-kevin-wm-wildes-sj-phd/death-has-become-a-choice_b_4612993.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/american-anthropological-association/defining-death-four-decades-of-ambivalence_b_4617991.html
Someone mentioned a 'burial permit.' I just don't see how Jahi's heart could still be functional after this much time and the degree of deterioration that had already occurred at time of discharge from CHO.
We also don't know the content of the 'release' between the coroner and the family.
The mainstream press really didn't adequately cover this case and probably don't have the resources to investigate. So...
Has a burial permit been given? Are these a State document or local, like a county? What about a permit to cremate? Same questions.
I don't think we will be getting a lot of new information until/if this case goes to trial. The attorney has this locked down pretty tight and seems now to be trying to influence public opinion, but not much else.
I looked up this great blog from @Anon 1/21 7:20 and have been engaging Dr. Chris Johnson on what standard PICU procedure is, and how that matches with publicly available (the family's) accounts of what happened.
Chris Johnson MD Blog on Jahi
I'm sure Chris is really busy, but he has taken the time to answer some questions, you might find it interesting.
LA TIMES - Opinion Sad saga of Jahi McMath made sadder by family's lawyer, readers say
Has anyone tried calling the Alameda County Coroner to see if they'll say anything? @Sprocket?
It is now 41 days since Jahi was declared brain dead. According to the very helpful post by Anon Alley 1/19 @10:13 pm, compare this to the support of brain dead pregnant patients for up to 120 days.
These durations, though, were probably achieved with superb care for the body using state of the art techniques, drugs, etc. Who knows whether the body of Jahi McMath is being treated with the same level of care...probably not, although its very hard to say without knowing where the body is, and who is managing it.
I think Sprocket's notion that it is probably a Catholic facility with Catholic medical personnel that don't believe in brain death is probably exactly right. Perhaps these types of facilities are providing some level of financial support, along with the Schiavo foundation, and possibly continuing gifts from the websites (that aren't being spent by uncle beast to go to football games with his pal Dolan).
No matter how you look at this, it's strange, very strange.
And on the opposing side of the debate:
I had not realized in the TX brain dead but pregnant case, that the family was against continuing *life support. And it is the hospital that is forcing the issue, based upon TX law.
{ Experts interviewed by The ASsociated Press, have said the hospital is 'misapplying the law.' }
The attorneys for the father/husband is now saying:
{ 'According to the medical records we have been provided, the fetus is distinctly abnormal,' the attorneys said. 'Even at this early stage, the lower extremities are deformed to the extent that the gender cannot be determined.'
The attorneys said the fetus also has fluid building up inside the skull and possibly has a heart problem. }
What a sad situation. What happens if the fetus somehow survives up to the inevitable premature birth? Will they insist on sustaining it on life support indefinitely??
He is fighting to honor his wife's wish, not to be kept alive by machines. I'd imagine he feels like she, and the would be baby, are some morbid science experiment.
(He is an EMT, as was the wife)
-CT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2544361/Fetus-brain-dead-woman-kept-life-support-against-familys-wishes-distinctly-abnormal-deprived-oxygen.html
Dave,
First, Alameda County is outside of the area that I specifically cover. My specialty is detailed trial coverage in Los Angeles County, mostly at the downtown Criminal Justice Center.
Second, anyone can contact the Alameda Coroner's office and ask. I'm betting that some journalists in the area already have.
Third, there was an initial statement, (after the body was released to the care of her mother) in one mainstream media news article. The coroner did not give specifics.
Until there is independent verification as to where the body is, it's an unknown. The general public is currently in limbo in regards to this case.
I suspect we will know more when a lawsuit is filed. That's my best guess at the moment.
I wonder how much longer people will be willing to donate money to this family. I won't be surprised to see a new "revelation" every week or so just to keep this going. Transferring her to a private facility took the story out of the news, then we get an update that she is allegedly able to control body temp. I suspect within the next few days we will see an update saying that some other part of her brain has miraculously regenerated. Keep passing out those updates every week or so so you can keep fleecing the faithful.
I am a a licensed private investigator in the state of California and also have a paralegal degree. I have followed this situation since the family first put it out for public consumption.
I have reviewed thousands of pages of medical records, court documents and transcripts of proceeding of all kinds during my career. So I'm not just throwing out random B.S.
Here is the deal. In the letter signed by the family attorney, Mr. Dolan, representing the mother of the deceased, dated December 18, 2013, and addressed to CHO on his office stationery and filed as an exhibit relating to the TRO he describes the deceased as just that in the opening paragraph (brain dead) and makes that assertion again at the end of the letter (brain dead).
When I saw that it was game over for me.
When your own attorney presents his client as (BRAIN DEAD) how do you switch gears? He memorialized it. It's there in black and white. Had this played out in the courts this situation would have been resolved long ago. Instead a deceased person was released to the mother with a DEATH certificate and transferred to parts unknown. Anything done to the body of this little girl post death is ghoulish.
There is so much speculation about the facts and circumstances surrounding this event that will only be played out when it hits the courts. And I assure you it will.
Additionally, there is no such thing as a routine surgery. And after reading up on the laundry list of procedures performed during this surgery and the delicate nature of the surgery anyone who calls it routine is flat out wrong.
Check the medical literature easily found on the internet regarding this surgery. There is a risk of bleeding. Due to the proximity of the surgery and the airway if there is a bleeding event it can go sideways quickly. It happened in this instance.
A mother lost a child. A young girl lost her life. Tragic? You bet it is! Should we be crucifying CHO? We don't really know what happened up to the point of the brain dead declaration. We only know what we have been told by the family and their attorney (who described the child as brain dead a.k.a. DECEASED) and court documents.
So when I see the general public showing the lynching mentality to the doctors and nurses of an institution in the business of saving lives it sickens me. Especially a teaching/research hospital that caters to the very people who complaining the loudest.
The analysis provided on your site is excellent. Succinct and thorough. A pleasure to read. Thank you.
Question for the legally-minded, expert and otherwise:
It occurred to me that the family might try to use a legal argument like, "Look, even the California judicial system agreed with us that it was "wrong" to remove Jahi from the ventilator...they granted us a restraining order preventing the hospital from doing so." This argument could theoretically bolster a civil rights OR a med mal case. So, thought I, the attorneys should appeal that TRO. I believe the criteria for a successful appeal is a determination by the higher court that the lower court failed to properly apply the law. In this case, many sources are saying that Judge Grillo's ruling contravened CA law. So, if the decision were appealed and over-turned, the attorneys could cut that possible attack off at the pass.
HOWEVER, from reviewing VenemousFeminist's summary of the pleadings, it appears that the TRO was never actually ordered. Rather, it was continued for one week, and before that week was over, Jahi's body was transferred, so the motion for TRO was never ruled on. So there's nothing to appeal. But the "continuance" did appear to be a victory for "team Jahi".
So I'm wondering if I understand all that correctly, and if "team Jahi" will be able to use that continuance in their legal arguments. I mean, does the continuance on the Motion for TRO constitute the Court's acknowledgment that Dolan's argument was valid? Will it carry any weight in future litigation?
Do you have today's LA Times article yet?
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-jahi-mcmath-organ-donation-20140123,0,5886722.story#axzz2rKt2devW
It's an opinion piece from another family who went through a similar thing. Very nice story, really. In the absence of new info from the family, it surprised me that LA came up with such high quality to keep the story going.
@g kuzma - my understanding, just from reading the VF summary (excellent) is that the initial TRO was granted by Judge Grillo to enable "independent" confirmation of the brain death declaration. My understanding is that this is a reasonable compromise for the family request for due diligence. However, the family "lost" this because their request for the "expert" was Dr. Paul Byrne, who: a) is not a neurologist; b) is not licensed in CA. So the court rightfully rejected him, and appointed Dr. Paul Fisher, a pediatric neurologist from Stanford.
My question on this is that Jahi was originally pronounced brain dead on 12/12, but the Fisher examination didn't occur until 12/23. Why? I guess the court process and the expert selection just took 11 days, with scheduling delays, hearings, etc.
I guess the only reason for the seeming "win" by the family on the initial TRO is that this whole thing so rarely happens. Normally, the family consents to have the patient removed from the ventilator, and case closed. There certainly are cases where this has happened (Jeremy Koochin) and as far as I can tell, the legal process is the same.
Just wondering. Are the records of the ambulance who transported Jahi from CHO covered by HIPPA?
Spitballing here:
If an ambulance company was hired to transport the body, I would assume that company's business records of who they transported and when, would be private.
I would expect that the family's attorney would ensure that privacy issues of the family would have been written into the transport contract.
I would expect that the facility where Jahi's body was sent would have asked for the same thing.
JMHO.
News out of San Francisco mainstream media is typically unreliable. However, this article also mentions that Jahi is in an undisclosed facility back east.
SF Gate article that has a sentence mention about Jahi at the very end..
@Sprocket - I wonder if we could get any of our medical expert commenters to weigh in on what it takes to transport a "critically ill" patient by air for long distances?
It would seem like you would need a private jet that is tricked out to have room for a ventilator, IV, etc, along with power supplies, monitors & misc equipment.
I would guess that even the amount they have raised on the various websites (less the amount for uncle beast to go watch football) isn't enough.
The burning question is: would the aircraft need to be equipped with a crash cart in case the "patient" arrested?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
HUFF POST: How an Outdated California Law is Impacting the Jahi McMath Case.
Here's what they would have needed to transport a dead body on a ventilator to the east coast: an air ambulance.
Air Ambulance Description
They also have a description of what it takes to load a patient onto the jet, along with the required ICU equipment:
CCT ride along
Or maybe they can modify the procedure for brain dead corpses.
I'm sorry. It's just if they actually did this, it takes the whole thing to another level. Not that it could get any weirder.
Hello,
I have been following this blog since its start. I am Colorado licensed attorney and former airline pilot. My husband is a former Air Ambulance pilot. Additionally, we have both flown harvested organs.
Transport of a patient via air requires a special aircraft, either fixed-wing or rotor (helicopter). Rotor-wing would not be an option is this case as a ventilator is a large piece of equipment. Fixed-wing (jet or turbo-prop) is an option.
Air ambulance aircraft are medically retro-fitted so the ground transport ventilator (or incubator in the case of newborns) can be immediately unplugged from the ground transport (ambulance), the patient placed on the LifePort (if equipped, it's an elevator to get the patient into the aircraft if not, the pilots and nurses lift them in on the gurney)and immediately reconnected to the aircraft medical equipment. The aircraft or its APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) are running at this time to ensure power to the equipment. Think of an ambulance with wings, same equipment with additional requirements, same crews with additional training.
During the patient ground transport from the hospital to the airport, the aircraft is refueled. The return flight plan is filed. If there is bad weather, the flight plan must list at least one alternate landing airport and in some cases, two. All this takes time and thought. In this case, ground transport would need to be coordinated with one, possibly two alternate landing airports.
During actual flight operations, when contacting ATC (air traffic control) on a Life Flight, pilots identify the flight as such so ATC can verify the flight number is indeed a Life Flight and give it proper traffic handling priority. Life Flights (sometimes called "LifeGuard") are filed that way on the flight plan to ensure this priority handling. (When your flight is delayed out of an airport, this may be the reason, give the pilots a break).
Many hospitals have their own aircraft and EMS crews for these Life Flights. Many also contract out to what's known as a Part 135 operator (basically an air charter)with medically specialized equipment. Whether a hospital or charter operator flies Life Flights and makes the investment in the specialized aircraft basically comes down to dollars and cents. If they can make a profit, they do it.
Back to Jahi. In this case, I highly doubt this was a Life Flight with high priority handling. What I suspect is a large Catholic hospital or organization, with connections to a hospital with a fixed-wing aircraft or operator, stepped in. The costs for a trans-con flight would be about $15-30K, it would be a jet, not turbo-prop and would have all the associated costs.
The point I'm trying make is air ambulance flights are difficult, expensive and operationally intense.
I don't think this happened here. If air transport was used, I believe it was done slowly, and not in the sense of emergency. I believe someone would have had to hook up with a sympathetic organization, one with a sophisticated air ambulance capacity, and use that for the east coast transport...if at all.
I believe the young lady was, in fact, ground transported to a location in California. The logistics and cost of a Life Flight would be really out there.
However, these out there Catholics (I'm a lapsed Catholic) have assets and abilities. Maybe it happened.
But I just don't see this sort of thing happening in this sad matter.
Texas Judge Orders Brain Dead Woman Off Life Support
So happy for this family. It's what they've wanted for some time, but had to go to court to get it.
Anon in Texas again. Finally a Judge making a good call in regard to brain death..
Marlise Munoz' husband won the right to turn off life support today and it was agreed upon by the hospital that the fetus is not viable.
Of course the hospital can appeal..
Finally had a chance to talk to my friend whose daughter has spent time at George Mark House for respite and hospice care. I asked her if she thought George Mark would take in a case like Jahi’s. Now, I realize this is just opinion, but it’s from the perspective of someone who has spent time there on multiple occasions over the years and who is grateful for the love and care George Mark has provided to her family. She said she thought it was highly unlikely because of the declaration of brain death and the issue of insurance. She said donations to George Mark have been down with the downturn in the economy, and that she didn’t think a nonprofit like George Mark could afford to take in a case like this – with a death certificate, there would be no insurance to pay. Also, even though George Mark offers end-of-life care and offers bereavement support to families as long as they desire, she said she couldn’t imagine George Mark being able to spare one of their 9 beds for someone who was declared brain dead already.
New Los Angeles Times Article today:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-le-0124-friday-mcmath-lawyer-20140124,0,4561046.story#axzz2rO9ULPD
Articles for today:
1. Academic symposium on the Munoz and McMath cases:
http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2014/01/announcing-online-symposium-on-munoz-and-mcmath-cases.html
2. Dolan's "Dear Abby" style blog in the SF examiner:
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/restraining-orders-are-vital-for-abuse-victims/Content?oid=2671572
New Instagram video (undated) with mother's voice over of jahi's feet responding to ice cubes:
http://instagram.Com/p/jnB2YiIps3/
If you are unable to view this here (suddenly the page can become private) you can see this on this page:
https://www.facebook.com/TeamJahiAFamilyInDenial?filter=2
New Article in Inside Bay Area:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24993248/jahi-mcmath-could-her-case-change-how-california
Just wanted to say I couldn't agree more, I was relieved to hear it.
A family the polar opposite of Jahi's. Only wanting to do the right thing, the ethical thing. To respect their loved one's wishes, not desecrate her body. Simply honor her & the unborn's memory in a proper burial, & finally able to grieve the loss.
I think the hospital in this case, overstepped their boundaries, Noting with the help of the local DA office. The initial age of the fetus did not warrant this clear manipulation of the law. Despicable the judge who ruled the enforcing of, having conflict of interest in connection to the parent co.
I don't mean to disparage teaching hospitals, but question if perhaps a factor in motive for this hospital's agenda?
A/o Certainly garnered free press for. Site for states it's a "publicly supported county health network." Also relying upon the JPS Foundation in funding.
Glad the new judge for made this right. But Based on gestational age of fetus at time of death, it never should have centered on the condition of at the end. I hope an invaluable lesson carries forth. Medicine has both scientific & ethical limits in such cases.
-CT
Here is an alternate link for the video - the one on instagram seems to have been removed.
http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4
I’m not a neurologist, but I have a graduate degree in a life science field, 25+ years experience in research and development in the medical field and I’m the parent of a child with complex, multi-systemic disorder who has brain damage affecting the hypothalamus/brain stem, among other things.
In my opinion, the video of Jahi’s reaction to the ice cube is a demonstration of what is known as a “reflex arc”.
http://www.medicalook.com/human_anatomy/organs/Reflex_arc.html
This simple reflex is both the most primitive and fastest type of reflex. It is fast because it bypasses the brain; like Lazarus sign/reflex, this reflex is triggered in the spinal cord.
If you have ever touched a very hot object and then, by reflex, pulled your hand away before you even recognized that the object was hot, then you have experienced a reflex arc. The sensation of heat was sent to your spinal cord, which in turn sent a signal to muscles to move away. The recognition that the object was hot requires your brain, but reflex to pull you hand away is regulated through the spinal cord.
Evening everyone. I've been working in the garage all day with Mr. Sprocket. Thank you for your patience. I try to get to comment approval as soon as I can.
Things have slowed down quite a bit with Jahi McMath news.
I've added the most recent links you've posted in comments to T&T's Jahi McMath Quick Links Page.
The alleged video of Jahi with the ice cubes on her feet is listed under
SOCIAL MEDIA, Instagram
because that's where it's originated.
Keep in mind, we have no idea when this video was created, or if it's fake. If it really is Jahi it could have happened in CHO, several weeks ago. There's just no independent way to tell.
I've added the link on Reflex Arc Anatomy to the:
RESOURCE LINKS- Medical Resources list.
I added the Symposium on Munoz/McMath to the
Relevant Media Reports list,
because I'm at a loss as to where to put it.
I put the link to Dolan's blog at the SF Examiner at top of the
Relevant Media Reports list,
along with the other news archives.
I think that covers it.
If you have questions, I will try to answer, but I don't think I really know any more than what I knew two weeks ago.
Remember, reading Facebook Group pages can be entertaining, but those posts or comments are not verifiable independent sources.
As always, thank you for reading T&T.
Via @DocBastard on Twitter, an article possibly relevant to the alleged video of Jahi's movements: Undulating Toe Flexion Sign in Brain Death.
From the link Anon @ 6:35 posted:
"In contrast, Saposnik and colleagues found
undulating toe flexion movements to be the
most common. They examined 107 brain
dead patients, in which 47 had abnormal spinal
reflexes, and the majority (23%) was the
undulating toe flexion sign (25 of 47)."
Of course, Sprocket is right, we don't even know this is Jahi. My question is, why doesn't the family post a full video showing the entire body, including the face, with something where date and time can be verified? Why the big mystery if she's doing so great?
While I am sure she is actually brain dead, I do have a question about the undulating toe reflex.
In the short video, Jahi's toes (if it is actually her) did not seem to actually undulate. Would the spinal cord reflex actually make her foot move away at the appropriate time when it should?
ASSUMING this video is Jahi, my understanding is, this is an action completely generated by the spinal cord.
It's no different than when you touch a hot stove, your hand immediately jerks back. You don't have to "think" about jerking your hand away.
There are medical experts who can explain the specific nervous system that's in play here, but I "think" it's the central nervous system.
Maybe I can get CaliGirl9 to chime in.
NEUROLOGICAL BULLETIN - Undulating Toe Flexion Sign in Brain Death.
Neurological paper.
SciGeek is correct. This is a classic reflex arc response. Notice how relatively slow and incomplete the move AWAY from the stimulus is. Had there been any ability for conscious movement, there would have been a quick jerk away, generated from the ankle or knee.
I believe this video may be one the grandmother claimed that the hospital had been shown, taken shortly before or during the first court crap.
all,
To weigh in on the reflex, it also appears to be similar to babinski reflex in newborns which disappears before the first year. If you scratch the outer part of a newborns foot gently, the toes can fan out, the foot jerk back. If this does not disappear around 1 year of life, spinal cord injury is concerned. It made me remember this is also found for certain para and quad victims. Just a educated guess here. CA rn.
Also another observation - she is wearing SCDs or compression devices to prevent thrombus. I wonder if anyone knows the kind they use at CHO and could compare. These aren't used at my facility in sf but then again I work with adults. Just curious to see comparison.
Morning Everyone!
I've posted a few new links to the Jahi McMath Quick Links Page.
I typed them all out here, and then they went POOF!
Here are the new titles that you can find in the
RESOURCE LINKS
section.
Regarding the alleged Jahi video responding to ice cubes. KZ, our Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist explains:
QUOTE: "... the area that they are stimulating in the video is L5- S1 dermatomes- quite low in the spinal column."
END QUOTE
L5 - S1 refers to your lower spinal column. L5 is your fifth lumbar vertebrae. S1 is your sacrum.
New Resource Links are titled:
RESEARCH GATE - Changes in spinal reflex excitability in Brain-Dead Humans
Wikipedia: Dermatome
Wofford College, SC, G.R. Davis, Ph.D., - Lessons From the Pithed Frog
And last but not least:
YouTube - Frog Legs Dancing With A Little Salt.
All the above links are in the RESOURCE LINKS section.
Articles:
http://thebioethicsprogram.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/the-concept-of-brain-death-and-the-tragic-cases-of-marlise-munoz-and-jahi-mcmath/
This can be filed with the Academic Symposium that I posted earlier on the mcmath and munoz cases, seeing as this is a paper being presented at the symposium by one of the invited contributors.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25001626/video-claims-show-jahi-mcmaths-feet-move
From Inside Bay Area commenting on the recent foot movement video making its rounds on the internet.
It makes me absolutely sick that the undated, unverified video of feet and ice cubes is now being circulated in the mainstream news media. The people posting on the Keep Jahi on Life Support Facebook page have been assuming without question that this as a new video and that it is "proof" that Jahi is alive by the grace of God. Any suggestions otherwise are lambasted as being cruel and/or evil and quickly removed.
Independent of the many solid medical explanations of why a cadaver's limbs might move in response to a stimulus, the gullibility of these people truly frightens me. You don't need a science background or even more than a few dashes of common sense to call the authenticity and meaning of this short video clip into question. Blind faith is the enemy of reason.
Was stopped outside of a major retailer (in Northern California) this weekend by folks manning a petition table. One of the petitions was to make drug testing for doctors a requirement. They were using Jahi's name & case as an example of what happens without mandatory testing. The fellow I spoke to said he had the permission of Jahi's uncle, who reportedly lives in nearby, to use her name.
Maybe it's because all of my relatives who are medical professionals work in government facilities or for government agencies ... but isn't that a requirement anyway? Is this possibly the tack they're planning to take when they finally decide to sue?
The Instagram video of the feet responding to ice cubes was either deleted or protected.
It's been moved to YouTube
Alleged Jahi video of feet responding to ice cubes
Anonymous
I was a nurse when gloves were a suggestion not a requirement, however, every job I had to take a drug test for, and some (like the mobile ICU) they even did the test by hair.
I have a few questions:
1.) People are saying that mainstream media outlets are treating the reflex video as if it were current, valid and reliable. I am wondering where y'all saw that. I don't doubt you - just wanted to look at those articles myself and check out the comments.
2.) A poster on LA Times said there is a conference on Jahi's case scheduled for April 2. Anyone know what that's about?
3.) Did any of you read the HuffPost piece about California's outdated damages cap law?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/how-an-outdated-californi_b_4645768.html
I was really surprised by that journalist's treating certain allegations as factual. I'm getting ready to post my detailed rebuttal of that article and wondered if any of you have perspectives to share so I can be more informed before chiming in.
Sprocket and her readers/contributors are amazing. I'll keep following this blog even after Jahi's case is resolved. These cases provide an amazing peephole into the workings of American society - everything from highly personal problems and individuals' struggles to broad stroke issues like abuse of power and financial inequities that are endemic to society.
Nothing develops my thinking more than allowing it to be challenged by other smart, concerned people.
g kuzma:
I don't know where the MSM is treating the video as new. Commenters on various outlets are questioning if it is the video that was presented to the court.
The video that was posted is very short, however, what may have been given to the court could have been longer and contained more. We just don't know.
I wonder if all the court filings (in three different courts) are all moot because the family resolved their issues with CHO. Maybe VenomousFeminist will weigh in.
The Huff Post article has been added to the quick links page.
I've not read all these new articles. I don't have the time to keep up. I'm behind on reporting on my other cases as it is, just trying to keep up with the links and new stuff on this case.
I hope everyone understands that no one gets paid to keep T&T running. Some of T&T's operating costs are covered by reader donations.
T&T does it's best to bring our readers the best in-depth coverage of criminal trials and cases close to our contributor's hearts.
Thank you everyone, for reading T&T.
Regarding the Huff Post article, this sentence strikes me as inaccurate:
"What we do know is that she choked on her own blood and was without oxygen for at least 10 minutes. ...the delay in getting a doctor to re-open her airway likely left the hospital wondering whether they would soon be facing a lawsuit for medical negligence."
I didn't think the "delay" in getting a doctor to reopen her airway was an established fact. The family claims they had to wait a long time, but there story is uncorroborated. We don't know how long it took for a doctor to tend to Jahi's airway proble, we don't know if that's what lead to her death (inability to breath vs. heart attack vs. emobolism, etc) and even if a doctor had been standing at her bedside the second she started bleeding, it still might not have saved her.
Do you guys agree, or am I missing something?
g kuzma - I'm the anon from 10:52 AM. I didn't mean to imply that the media was treating the video as current; I was specifically referring to the "Keep Jahi Mcmath on Life Support" Facebook page. Before the original Instagram video link was deleted from that page, it had over 1400 "likes" and hundreds of comments from supporters saying things like "By his stripes, she is healed!" along with comments along the lines of "Her skin doesn't look that bad to me, show this to the naysayers, she's getting better!" Truly incredible level of ignorance and/or denial.
Someone from the "A Family in Denial" Facebook page might have screencapped some of those comments, but that page is now being moved to a closed group. Which I'd join but I don't want to lose my anonymity on this particular topic (as people can still see the members of closed groups).
@g kuzma - I think what is known is that she suffered a cardiac arrest. This is from the Paul Fisher brain death exam notes. We don't know what caused the cardiac arrest exactly. We know that she suffered an irreversible brain injury after the cardiac arrest.
I think we can also be reasonably sure that a trauma team saw her after the arrest and restarted her heart. The family has mentioned this several times.
There was a physician that commented on another blog that, particularly in a case like this, obstruction of the airway, causing respiratory arrest generally precedes cardiac arrest in younger patients.
So, although the cause of Jahi's irreversible brain injury is not publicly known, one could probably reasonably presume that an airway obstruction caused respiratory arrest, which then resulted in cardiac arrest. Probably due to the delay in restarting her heart and respiration, the brain injury was probably caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.
The trauma team most likely would have needed to clear her airway in addition to defibrillating the heart. So most likely, there was a delay of 5-10 minutes, at least, between the cardiac arrest and the restoration of breathing and heart beat.
Of course, this is all speculation, and we will probably never know the actual facts. And physicians, if I got any of this wrong, please correct.
Here's a question for those that have experience with trauma response within an ICU.
Something that has puzzled me is why there was a long enough delay between Jahi arresting, and the restoration of her breathing and heart function by the trauma team, to cause a serious enough brain injury to lead to whole brain death.
Although I'm sure a lot of people have been asking this, and although there is a paucity of facts here, I haven't seen any "most likely" scenarios. Has anyone else?
So one question here is, what would be the standard vital sign monitoring set up for a patient like Jahi in a "typical" PICU? From what I understand, with full vital sign monitoring and alarming, any type of abnormal condition is detected almost immediately. So I'm wondering if perhaps a patient like Jahi might not get full vital sign monitoring, and only something like pulse oximetry to monitor O2 levels?
I'm asking because I saw a quote from Grandma somewhere (and I'll have to look and find it) that she noticed that the O2 level was changing after the bleeding had started and presumably become profuse.
Wouldn't this mean that Jahi had probably already stopped breathing? I'm thinking that this would explain a delay (absent some early notification from the family) in the trauma team response.
Any thoughts or ideas? Of course, this is all speculation, and I know medical folks don't like to speculate...
David,
I'm not a medical expert by any means, but I think you need to rely on what CHO stated happened in court documents. I think that's your "best" source.
Less likely for one side or the other to "lie" in court documents.
Family/attorney can say anything to the media, but it's relevant if the family said something to the media about their actions.
Know this isn't much help, but hopefully, someone will chime in soon.
@Dave Erickson,
What I'm still not understanding is the use of the term delay. How do we know there was a delay? Saying there was a delay seems to impart responsibility to the hospital, and I just don't see the evidence that there was a delay. To say there was a delay makes it sound like she just bled out for several minutes with no attention - which is the mother's contention, but I find it hard to believe. The way I understand it is that even if a doctor had been present and treating Jahi the whole time, she still could have died from bleeding. Hospitals are not expected to have MDs bedside for all post-op patients. I think once the surgery is over and the patient is stable, care is handed over to nurses who alert doctors of abnormalities. SO there is a reasonable amount of time that doctors can leave patients in the care of other medical personnel. How long that is, I have no idea. but is this the "delay" we are talking about? If so, it doesn't seem actionable to me - for the nurse to page a doc and it to take him a few minutes to get there from the other side of the hospital, for instance - that's a feasible scenario.
Maybe I'm missing something - I'm sure not arguing with you on an individual basis - moreover, just the assumption throughout the news media and medical discussions that there was a "delay" that lead to her death. I'm just not convinced yet. What do you think?
I with the media hadn't take Winkfield's story so seriously to begin with. I have a feeling that once the facts are allowed to come out in legal proceedings, we'll be surprised at the real facts versus what we were told.
@g kuzma - You're right, "delay" is somewhat loaded. What I was trying to get at is, what is the normal response time in a PICU if a patient has either a respiratory or cardiac arrest?
What my sense has been from the beginning is that
a) the family caused the abnormal bleeding by ignoring post op instructions
b) to cover the fact that they caused the bleeding, they tried to stem the bleeding and through doing so, caused Jahi to stop breathing.
c) continued their efforts until it was too late for the trauma team to save her.
That's my operating hypothesis. However, it could be that in the PICU, the timing is so critical with the trauma team response that even under the best of conditions, the patient suffers irreversible brain injury. Maybe this happens more frequently than we realize, and it has nothing to do with what the family did or didn't do.
This is the problem right now, and that Sprocket helpfully keeps reminding us, is that we are in an information vacuum. Even after going to through the documents on the Thaddeus Pope site, we still don't have a clear picture of what happened, pre-irreversible brain injury.
I've been able to piece some things together just through the family's statements and the inconsistencies there. One thing is pretty clear, and that is that the family used a suction device. This is clearly not part of the normal PICU procedure. The other is, they were trying to deal with the bleeding before and probably during a respiratory arrest, and the PICU staff didn't know it. I can't see how this would happen unless they (the family) are lying about it. But maybe we'll never know.
Another paper for the academic symposium on bioethics:
http://blog.oup.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-medical-ethics-religious-beliefs/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=oupacademic&utm_campaign=oupblog
About the video, the Date and Time stamp were removed from the file. I was able to save the file right when it was posted, and I performed two basic checks at that time.
I decided to go through a full forensic peek at this file today, and I can say that someone used an easy and available feature to remove their personal information as well as other important information (Date and Time, etc.).
Does anyone know when the video of Jahi's feet seemingly reacting to the ice stimulation was filmed ?
Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes:
The Video:
Here is what I know. Members of the crime forum "WebSleuths" who were able to grab the video before I did (and have more technical skills than myself) have posted that meta data on the video contains the date "1904." That's the only meta data they've found.
From this date, it appears that a creation date of the video was either:
1. never set
2. reset or erased.
T&T's go to tech, DAYS LIKE THIS, is currently running the video through programs to try to find the meta data and a date. I'll let everyone know when DLT has an answer for me.
It's my understanding that the source of the video was a posting on a Facebook Page titled:
Keep Jahi McMath on Life Support.
I do not know for certain "who" inititated this page. I've also read, anonymous comments at different places, that the video was posted on an instagram account belonging to Jahi's uncle, Omari Sealy. I do not know if that is true or not because I did not see that posting.
I know that one of T&T's guest writers and medical expert, KZ has said the following about the video:
QUOTE:
We don't know the date of that video, but her periphery appears pretty well perfused and well hydrated. Good skin care. No obvious breakdown.
She is wearing a sequential compression device on her calves. It's like a massager to stimulate venous return, and try to prevent sluggishness and clots in the lower extremity peripheral venous system. Her physical body is probably getting pretty good care.
END QUOTE
I would say it's a pretty good bet that this "is" Jahi, but it's also a good bet that this is the whole video, or part of the video that is mentioned in the court papers, meaning the video was taken in mid to late December.
Hello. Just want to chime in on the delay scenerio. We did not know what caused the arrest, it could have been lhypvolemia from blood loss or a dramatic drop in hgb. Even if the doctor was putting in an et tube before she crashed, if she was excessive bleeding from her throat and there was swelling, that sucker would be hard to place and would definitely case a delay. Even with the best compressions, if the hemoglobin is low, your brain is still being robbed of oxygen.
Anon who left a comment:
Yes, I am familiar with MoJo_RN's blog
She tweeted that she mentioned T&T and I thanked her back in tweets.
New Articles for today:
San Jose Mercury News commenting on the low bleed rate for tonsillectomies done at CHO
http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_25042493?source=rss
Paul Byrne reacting to the ice-cube video:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140201
From SF Gate Dying While Black:
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Dying-while-black-the-case-of-Jahi-McMath-5194176.php
I'm wondering if by now Jahi has been removed from the vent and either buried or cremated. I certainly hope that this young lady is/was allowed to finally be at rest.
Could her passing be kept from the public in California or will eventually the truth come out?
Anon @ 5:07 PM
Anything is possible. But think about this for a moment. What we know about this family, do you really think they could have a "quiet" funeral service for Jahi?
We'll know when an independent source reports her heart stopping and/or there is a lawsuit filed against the hospital.
Not sure if you will want to post, or prior noted,,,
But there's a petition in Marlise Munoz case, to demand the hospital not bill family for their morbid science experiment. Not like the inflicted suffering wasn't enough of a cost.
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/31/1273854/-Texas-kept-Marlise-Munoz-on-life-support-against-her-wishes-Will-her-family-get-the-bill?detail=action
You can also comment on the petition signing. I vented just a tad. Interesting how Jahi case was opposite. This
Place could learn some things from CHO's stance.
"The initial action of doing so was a manipulation & misapplication of the law, by both the DA & hospital. To have desecrated a woman's body & unborn fetus is deplorable. That it took the deformation of fetus to stop it, sickening. Meanwhile prolonging the suffering in going against the wishes of the husband, family, & brain dead patient.
Shame on the initial judge who allowed the miscarriage of justice to drag on. No surprise she later recused herself for conflict of interest (connection to JPS foundation of parent co owning hospital). I hope it's a vital lesson in that "teaching" hospital, you can't replicate the human body, using a corpse in the critical development stages of another life. Total opportunistic abuse of a human being's body as some Frankenstein-esque experiment! Medical science has it's limits. When you defy that, while disregarding ethics, morals, & the norms of society, what does that make you??
As for the bill, eat it! How dare you add financial burdens on a family defied the ability to grieve their loss. Corrupting the justice system to strong arm, so to carry out your morbid curiosity. Despicable you'd even consider they should fund your acts of enormous error in judgement & abuse of your power & others.
I hope the family sues you for medical malpractice in an astronomical amount, for both of them. If just to ensure this never happens again. Not to mention loss of jobs & licenses for anyone responsible."
-CT
Articles for today:
Do the legally dead have rights?
http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2014/01/31/rights-of-the-legally-brain-dead/
End of Life Elusive
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/End-of-life-elusive-thanks-to-tricks-of-modern-5194165.php
Dying with Dignity
http://savannahnow.com/column/2014-02-02/murphy-theres-something-be-said-dying-dignity#.Uu62Kfa6CXw
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