Update May 30th, 2011: Desiree Goudie's cross exam; defense witnesses added. Sprocket.
Update May 28th, 6:43 pm: Desiree Goudie's testimony complete. Sprocket.
Update May 28th, 2011 1:40 pm: Portion of Desiree Goudie's testimony added. Sprocket.
Note: May 26th, 2011: I had started on Day 2's testimony, without finishing Day 1's witnesses, and then erroneously posted my notes below at the end of Day 1. I guess you could say my brain is really fried from lack of sleep. I apologize. Sprocket.
Continued from Penalty Phase Day 2...
Monday May 23rd, 2011
JK: (Addressing the jury:) I have egg on my face keeping you waiting for almost an hour. I think we are going to conclude all of the evidence today.
EH: I’d like to call Renay Goudie.
#6 RENEE GOUDIE
EH: I’d like to show you a photograph.
Do you recognize the woman between the two babies?
RG: Yes I do. (It’s) my sister-in-law Pam.
EH: Are you married to Scott:
RG: Yes I am.
EH: How long (have you been married)?
RG: Twenty-five years.
Harmon asks when she first met her sister-in-law.
RG: I first met Pam when I was 18 years old. (snip) It was in 82.
EH: Did you know Pam a bit before you married your husband?
RG: Yes. (snip) We were teenage girls at that time. (snip) Not a lot (hung out together) but we had interaction with each other.
EH: Then you had a child there after? (snip) Is that the child? (snip) You had a boy, how many years before this photograph?
RG: Three years.
EH: So Pam was an aunt at that time?
RG: Yes she was. (snip) She was a wonderful aunt. (snip) Pam and I were pregnant together.
EH: How old is your son in this photo?
RG: That was their first Christmas. They were approximately three months old. (photo) That’s justin. He’s older than Desiree by 4 days.
EH: You got to see what kind of mom (Pamela was)?
RG: Yes I did. (snip) She was a loving and caring mother. (snip) She wanted the best for heir children. (snip) Well, she always (was?) a single mom and wanted the best for her daughter. Was always there. Wanted the best for her children.
EH: How was your relationship?
RG: It was fun raising our children together. We would get together it was always fun.
Photo of pam in late 80’s She had gotten a chicken foot for Christmas and she’s modeling it in the photo.
RG: She had a great sense of humor. She loved to laugh. We loved to laugh; she was always quirky and silly.
They took vacations together with their children. A photo of them at the San Diego zoo together. Pam, Desiree, Justin Derek and herself. The two boys in the photo are her children. Children are very young in the photo.
EH: What kind of role did Pam play when her mother and father were alive?
RG: She was always there. We could never not call her and she would never not be there. (Interesting double negative answer.)
People s 185. Video going to be played.
EH: I’m going to ask you to tell us what we’re seeing.
Here is some of the audio fro the video.
Hi Mom! Hi Daddy. Laughter. What do you have to say.
RG: This is Pam laughing. This was December of 1989 our children’s first Christmas together. That is Desiree.
Pamela: “Smile, you are alive and on the air.”
RG: That’s my husband.
EH: You in the back?
RG: Yes I am.
Choppy old video.
RG: She was just imitating my son with that exact same candy cane. ... She’s opening her stocking. ... She loved candy.
Renee dabs a tissue to her eyes, and rocks a bit back and forth in her chair. The video is hard to see . It's all dark. Renee has a quick smile at a memory on the video.
Pamela: “Desiree. First Christmas”
Lights are asked to be dimmed by the prosecution. Ah now we can see it better.
RG: Niece Desiree and son Justin.
The mothers are holding their babies, letting them face each other. We can hear Scott on the video. Now, another video clip, following Christmas. Now years later, more video of Pamela with children.
RG: We came down to the beach to visit Scott’s mother and Pamela was taking care of her. That’s his mother on the right, May 1991.
EH: What is this (Date in lower corner of video: 5/27/91)
RG: This was at her house.
More video of the kids with Pam. That completes this portion of the video.
EH: In the ten years following this, did you get to see Pam?
RG: Yes. Off and on.
EH: Could you describe?
RG: It was wonderful. We would go down to Oceanside and we would come down. They would come visit us.
Harmon asks about seeing Jeanett.
RG: We didn’t get to see her much when she was younger.
EH: Now Jeanett lives with you?
RG: Yes she has. (snip) (We) are legal guardians of her.
EH: How did you find out that Pam had been murdered?
RG: It was one of the worst days of my life. My husband called and asked me to have my children there. I thought he had quit his job
EH: (What did he tell you?)
RG: He said “Pam’s dead.” He said Pam’s dead and as I screamed in disbelief, we had to find some answers we had no idea... (snip) He called Desiree. She validate what he had just heard.
EH: How was it to hear your husband going thought that?
RG: This is my husband! No spouse should even see the pain he is going through!
EH: In the first few days, did you have any answers?
RG: No one could tell us anything. We literally jumped in the car and drove down to get some answers.
EH: When you found out how (Pamela died)? It’s, I didn’t take it well at all. It’s not their choice (Fayed?) to do that.
EH: Were you involved in the estate matters?
They tried to come down to help solve (the estate) and help Desiree.
RG: We came to try and help her (Desiree).
EH: Did yo help with Pam's belonging and funeral arrangements?
RG: At that point in time we had no answers. We had to wait to get her body.
She assisted with funeral arrangements.
RG: During the time of waiting we had arranged to have that done, but until we had her (body) we could not finalize everything.
EH: Did you help with her belongings in the house?
RG: We didn’t. I think Desiree did.
EH: In the last few days you've watched this proceeding and ...
RG: It’s heard wrenching! I shouldn’t be going though this! It’s, it’s wrong!
EH: Are you angry?
RG: Very angry. It saddens me. It’s one thing what he did to Pammy; what he did to my family!
She turns and faces Fayed and addresses him in a loud voice.
RG: Shame on you for what (you’ve done)!!.
JK: If you could just confine your answers to the questions (please?).
EH: Can you describe for us what its’ like for your family?
RG: Every day is difficult. We think about it all the time.
EH: What’s been the most difficult thing?
RG: Trying to be there. Be strong. Be there for him. Be strong for my children, for Jeanett. I have to be strong for them and it’s hard When is it my time to grieve? (snip) I miss her laugh. We loved to laugh. I miss her voice, talking to her on the phone and hearing her soft voice. (snip) I miss going on vacation with her. We were going to go to Las Vegas on vacation when our kids were 21 . We still went, but she wasn’t there.
No cross questions.
#7. DESIREE GOUDIE
Desiree resworn in.
AJ: Obviously the jurors know who you are in relation to Pamela Fayed. I want to talk to you a bit about your relationship with your mom. Mother married for about a year previously before James Fayed?
DG: About a year.
She was alone with her mother before James Fayed, until she was about six.
AJ: What do you remember, as you look back in your life? What do you remember about those times with your mom as a toddler?
DG: I remember that she had to work a lot I spent a lot of time with baby-sitters.
AJ: Your time was limited but what time what her was always nice?
DG: Did you go though a bit of separation anxiety?
AJ: As a little girl...
DG: She would always wear this red lipstick. And I would always make her kiss me on the nose because I wanted to be like Rudolph.
Desiree starts to cry.
DG: Christmas, Holidays, was she sensitive o to those (special days)?
AJ: Made sure you had birthdays, with friends?
AJ: What was she like on holidays?
Jackson mentions the video we just watched.
Desiree doesn’t know about the video.
AJ: You’ve never actually seen that video?
AJ: There’s a video of her...
Jackson then goes onto say something to the effect that she needs to see it.
AJ: Tell us about the Christmases you do remember.
DG: She was always festive and into decoration; the tree. And listen to corny merry merry Christmas CD’s
She was always involved in the holidays, because she was always festive.
AJ: How are the holidays since she (died?)?
Desiree becomes very emotional again.
DG: It’s really shitty walking down the stairs in my apartment since she's not there. It’s lonely and I hate it.
Desiree is in full breakdown on the stand now.
AJ: Did you have any fears?
DG: My biggest fear was that I would always lose her.
I was afraid (because?) she was a smoker and I was afraid that God would take her away from me. (snip) I’m in a daze. I’ve been completely lost in the last three years. (snip) I don’t feel anything anymore. I don’t get excited about anything. I feel empty.
AJ: Is that a feeling you think will stay with you for a while?
AJ: That emptiness that void?
AJ: Is there anything that fills that?
DG: No. (snip) There are people I can turn to but it’s not the same. I feel lost; there (?) I have not sense of direction.
AJ: And the fact (Pamela and?) you are not going to be there for momentous occasion in your life.
DG: It hurts.
Desiree continues to cry.
AJ: Going back.... Do you need just a second?
DG: No I’m all right.
She blows her nose with a tissue.
AJ: (Moving from) your years as a toddler, moving into your older years, as a preteen, were you involved in school activities, plays?
DG: I was, but a few times. Cheer leading one year. In elementary times I was in a few school plays.
AJ: Is there some thing (that you remember)?
DG: I remember a play three billy goats gruff. I was a rabbit. She painted my face. By the end of the night it was wiped off. (snip) She wanted to go to every single school event I was included in.
AJ: She was that type of mom always there always cheer you on
AJ: So she was an active mom in your life?
AJ: Now older into your teen years, going into high school, what was your life like? What did you do for fun?
DG: I always wanted to be with my friends. It was what ever; I went with the flow.
AJ: Was your mom active with your friends?
DG: Yes, I mean, yes I would say so yes.
AJ: Thirteen, fourteen; tough years?
DG: That was my rebellious stage.
AJ: How did your mom deal with that?
DG: She hated it but she was always there deal with that.
When she would discipline us, but 10 minutes later she would always turn around and hug us and apologize for punishing us.
AJ: Can you say when your mom was a good disciplinarian?
DG: She expected a lot from us but she always gave us a lot of freedom to choose right from wrong.
AJ: Did she have fine sense of right and wrong and impart that to bout you and Gigi?
AJ: What was your mom like with others, in your observation? Was she generous was she friendly (or was she) standoffish and shy.
DG: Extremely friendly outgoing, She would glow form the inside out. Her laugh along was great.
AJ: Did she have what one would call an infectious laugh?
DG: Yes. Absolutely.
AJ: Your uncle Scott said that one of the things that reminds (him of Pamela) is your laugh sounds like her.
DG: I’ve heard that many times. (snip) She was very generous. And I know that she always wanted to help people, whether they could return the favor or not. (snip) I remember I had a friend, Hope, (We were) not even that close. Hope’s mom was financially struggling and we bought a bunch of groceries for Hope and her mom.
AJ: It was not anything that they asked for?
DG: No. In fact they were surprised that we had shown up.
Desiree gives another example of her mother’s generosity.
DG: (There was a) homeless man who would hang out by Kmart that wasn’t very clean. My mom tried to talk to him at one (time of?) year, offered to help him with a shower and to clean up. He was very humbled but wouldn’t accept it.
AJ: Your boyfriend at the time (was) hired by Goldfinger? (snip) How did your mom treat that young man?
DG: (She) hired him and took him out and bought him a whole new wardrobe.
AJ: (She) didn’t ever expect repayment?
DG: No. (snip) As I matured, I related more with things and we would hang out and shop. We were very close.
AJ: Did you include your mom as your influence grew with fashion and make-up and shoes?
DG: Yes. It was just something we got into. I looked up to her as I was growing older. (snip) She wanted to hang out with me and my friends. She wanted to be included.
AJ: She wanted to had onto her youth and stay in fashion?
AJ: And y'all had girl talks about things like that?
AJ: As you got older, seventeen, eighteen, did you consider your mom as much of a friend and a mother?
AJ: Lets talk about Jeanette. How old is Jeanette?
DG: She’s twelve.
AJ: How old when (your mother was murdered)?
DG: She was nine.
AJ: It was difficult for Jeanette wasn't’ it? (snip) But you were old enough to know...? (snip) Have you been protective of Jeanette?
DG: Yes. It’s hard to comfort a child when you can’t even keep it together yourself.
AJ: Do you worry about Jeanette?
DG: Every day, yes.
AJ: Do you mis her?
AJ: So there are too people who are gone out of your life, in the blink of an eye?
DG: My family ripped apart.
AJ: Was your mom close to jeanette?
DG: Very. They were attached at the hip. They were always doing everything together. Hanging out; going off doing things together, They even would sleep together at night.
Even (when Jeanette was) six, seven, eight, nine.
AJ: Did your mom every talk about the future together?
(?) About the divorce.
AJ: Did you and your mom ever talk abut what that would mean?
DG: She was worried about the financial; what was going to happen and we wanted to see what we could do to start our own company. We were just trying to throw out ideas together.
AJ: Was it you idea to go into business with your mom?
DG: That was my plan.
AJ: So in July what happened to those plans?
DG: It obviously went away.
AJ: Describe how you found out your (mother’s murder).
DG: I was up, I it was around midnight. I kept getting to get a phone call from a random number. I stepped out (to) check it. (She was at the movies at the time.) It was a man informing me that my mom had bee involved in an accident. (He said) I need to meet up with you and talk with you. I was in shock. I went to my friend's house. The police met us at my friend’s house. It was 2 hour wait.
AJ: What were you thinking?
DG: I didn't’ know what happened I thought she was in car wreck.
AJ: What happened when the detectives pulled up to Ventura?
DG: They had informed the parents (of my friend) and she came in running, crying. I couldn’t even be process it. (I asked, was) she was abducted kidnapped? I couldn't even understand it. I was completely blank faced (as to) what to say. I didn't’ know how to act or what to do.
AJ: Were you mentally processing the fact that your mother had been murdered?
DG: I couldn't believe it. (snip) Some sort of shock.
AJ: You said that you (were?) with a blank stare on your face. Did you break down?
DG: I had no emotion it was the weirdest emotion I could ever experience. I didn’t know how I went to sleep. (snip) Delilah called her the next day. She had Jeanette.
She wasn’t crying, just numb. She made (many) phone calls over the next few days.
DG: I called Jim and he didn't answer his phone.
AJ: Did he ever call you back?
DG: Nope. (snip) For those 3 days, I didn’t even get a single phone call, even asking where Jeanette was.
AJ: You became aware as time time went on the circumstances of your moms death?
DG: I did. But I was in a complete daze. (snip) But I was being tugged right and left. And me starting college two weeks from that, I didn't know what to do.
AJ: You were supposed to start college? James Fayed in custody. You were going to start college....
DG: Jeanette stayed with Delilah for a week, then I took care of her for the next month. I had to keep it together for her, I had to try to be an adult when all of this fell in my lap at once.
AJ: Was there any time for you to even grieve for your mother's death?
DG: No. I honestly don't’ remember much because I was in a daze. I didn't know what to do
AJ: Did you take part in planning your mothers funeral?
DG: Yes. (snip) They (her relatives) took care of mostly all of it. They let me choose the place and the casket and then they took care of it from then on.
Photo of her mother’s casket from the memorial service.
AJ: What you were feeling (at that time)?
DG: I had no feeling I didn’t know what to do. It was all coming at once. And it was just the weirdest feeling ever, wondering what s going on.
AJ: You never had a chance to say goodbye?
DG: I got to say goodbye though. (She was) caked in make up; totally covered. It was weird Jeanette didn’t know what to think. I think she was as shocked by the violence as I was.
AJ: Was there something (that was unusual?)?
DG: Jeanette was bothered by the fact that we had to bury her in a scarf and Jeanette knew that she didn’t like scarves. (snip) I didn’t know shat to tell her. I just told her she died in car accident.
Another photo is presented.
DG: That’s them lowering my mom into the ground.
AJ: The person i in the foreground?
DG: That’s Jeanette.
AJ: Who's the young person at the casket?
DG: That's me. I was kissing it goodbye.
AJ: You sat though most of the testimony? (snip) (You heard Edwin Rivera...)
DG: I did not sit through the testimony of Edwin Rivera. I did not.
AJ: Did you become away of the testimony?
DG: I read it in the paper. After I read it, I had to put it down. I just started happening (the memories? again?)..
AJ: Is that why you didn’t want to sit through his testimony?
DG: I didn't know I was allowed to sit thought it.
AJ: When you became aware of that article, of your moms attack; her wounds, what went though your mind?
DG: Um, after reading it, it just it made me sick. The fact that she was completely conscious and the fact that she was completely manhandled and beaten to death. It made me sick. I didn’t know what to do. It made me so angry I wish I could control it bout I couldn’t.
AJ: How did what you read make you feel as you tried to put your life (back together?)?
DG: It makes me sick. I think of the images, knowing only the whites of her eyes are visible. I don’t know what to do. It makes me so hateful! I just don’t know what to do!
AJ: I’m sorry Desiree. I have one more question for you. The letter. Tell me first if you recognize this letter.
DG: I do. That was attached to my mom’s final will and testament.
AJ: Whose handwriting (is it)? (snip) Have you seen this letter before?
DG: I have.
AJ: would you read this letter to the jurors.
She tries to read. She reads the letter well, struggling only because she can’t read some of the script words of her mother's handwriting.
AJ: When you see that letter Desire, what does it make you think as you move into the future without your mom?
DG: It just saddens me depresses me and it not only affected me and Jeanette and everyone in your life, it also affects our future families. (snip) I don’t know how anyone could live with themselves after doing something like this.
Direct is finished and Meister gets up to cross.
SM: You’re one tough cookie you know that?
DG: I’ve heard that many times.
SM: Are you still living in Southern California?
DG: I am. (snip) I live in an apartment, yes. (snip) I work full time and I go to school at night.
SM: What type of work (do you do)?
DG: I’m an office assistant.
SM: What are you studying?
SM: What do you look to do?
DG: I want to own my own business.
SM: What kind?
DG: (I can’t) think about that now.
SM: So you’re working, going to school for business?
DG: I’m very busy.
SM: When you testified on direct exam last week, you were taking about the family history after your mom and Jim met. (Do you) remember?
SM: You said when you met Jim you and he bonded?
DG: Correct, yes. (snip) Well, when I was younger, I looked up to him a lot. I needed that father figure in my life and it was comforting. (snip) I think I was about six.
SM: He was in (fact?) a nice guy to you?
DG: He was friendly, yes.
SM: Do you remember the times you would spend with your mom and Jim from (?)
DG: (I) remember, yes.
SM: So you all (were? lived? together?). When did you start? Before they got married.
DG: We (were) living in Lake Forest in Orange County.
SM: Do you remember those times together?
DG: Yes I do.
SM: Did you think of them as a good family?
DG: Yes I did.
SM: It was nice?
She lived with Jim for next 12 years. (?Yeah, 11). Fayed doesn’t look at Desiree.
SM: What was the relationship like with Jim, at the time when you were) ten, twelve, thirteen?
DG: It was good we bonded. We were close.
SM: (Could you) go to him if you needed something?
SM: Did you feel like he loved you?
SM: Did you love him?
SM: Did he and your mom seem like they were happy?
DG: I think so. I don't know how many times they would fight, and they would say (during the fight) “We’re getting a divorce.”
I believe Meister asks when that started, the divorce threats and Desiree testifies around the time she was eight.
SM: When you hit preteen, the age Jeanette is now, what was (your) relationship like at that time?
DG: At that time you start separating fro your parents and do your own thing. I was still close with family; our relationship was good, it was great.
SM: Was there a time around then when you and your mom were fighting a lot?
SM: Was Jim still a person you could go to if you needed him?
(My fingers are aching from trying to type so much. I have to stop for a moment.)
More questions about her age and Jeanette’s age and how they got along.
SM: Over your life was (? something about life with Jim) basically a good day?
DG: I wouldn’t exactly say that. (snip) In the last years of his life, he lived in his cave and wouldn’t really come out.
SM: Was a Jim close with Jeanette too?
DG: You could tell that he loved her dearly, but he didn’t get involved to the level that my mom did. (Mom? Relative? would) freak out if she was left with him for a weekend.
SM: (You said) cave; what are you talking about?
DG: The bedroom. He was comatose from the drugs. In a stupor. It wasn’t good. It was really upsetting. (snip) It got to the point that I hated being around him. I do remember that there was morphine in the refrigerator. He would also take pills. He would take a briefcase that was always filled with medication.
SM: Did you ever hear them talking about it?
DG: She (Pamela) was irritated by it. (snip) No, but you could tell that she was always upset. It would cause fights between them.
SM: (Another question)
DG: He would go to different doctors (t0 get drugs) and go to each one without telling each (other) one.
Jackson objects and the last answer is stricken.
SM: How old were you when he started taking lots of pills?
DG: At least 16. (snip) The environment around the house was just bad. Jim would be in his room. Through a school meeting he couldn’t even keep his eyes open.
She was 16 when that happened.
Meister asks her about seeing Fayed in pain.
DG: To be honest, they would say that he was in a lot of pain, but I didn’t really see him in pain. (snip) He was kinda stooping around the house. He wasn’t a real happy guy.
SM: Did he ever seem depressed to you?
DG: Yes. He didn’t seem happy. (snip) Up until I was 16, I didn’t really notice (it) . I was off doing things with my friends.
(Are they going to blame this on his arthritis and extensive drug use?)
SM: You said in your testimony, you said, that sometimes you wish you could control your anger.
DG: It’s not my anger. I wish I could control my situation and fix it.
SM: Do you remember Jim and your mom working together?
SM: Did you see them work well together?
DG: I wasn’t there at the business then.
She talks a bit about remembering that Jim still worked on the “base” flying in and out. Doesn’t really remember. She thinks he worked on telephone poles. Doesn’t know when (it was). She’s asked if it was a military base or which one.
Questions about her at 16 detecting a strain in the marriage and how was her mom. She had to be strong. She was taking care of the girls at that time.
DG: She didn’t like to show that she was unhappy. She would put the mask on. We would talk about it . She had to be the strong rock for us.
No further questions and no redirect.
JK: Counsel approach.
Bailiff stands behind the defendant while counsel are at sidebar.
JK: The people rest. The people have rested and defense is going to present some evidence they need a little bit of time to speak to witness are here some came a distance what the defense has asked to take our noon recess at 11 going until l1 pm on a break. the defense has assured me they will conclude with their evidence today.
JK: And once that has concluded I do have to yet speak to the attorneys about jury instructions. So, I don't think we will get to any closing arguments until tomorrow.
JK: Be back at 1:00 pm to continue with evidence.
This concludes the morning session.
JK: Are we ready for the jurors?
It’s 1:05 pm, and the jurors file in a minute later. Fayed speaks to his attorney. He turns to look behind him; it’s the bailiff who’s standing there.
JK: Mr. Meister?
SM: First call James Sadler (sp?)
He’s wearing a suit. He’s slender, balding with a goatee.
#1 JAMES D. SADLER
SM: Where do you live?
JS: Mt. Airy, MD. It’s about 35 miles north of DC and (the) same west of Baltimore.
Lived there his whole life.
SM: Traveled overnight to be here?
JS: Yes I did.
SM: Do you know (James Fayed)? When did you first meet?
JS: I call him Jim. I met him in high school. We grew up in the same neighborhood in (?Almney? possibly Monterrey?) Village in Montgomery County. (snip) Yes.
SM: How old are you?
JS: I am 49. I believe Jim was a year younger. (snip) Yes; we became friends in high school. (snip) We kinda hung out and talked cars and that kind of thing. (snip) He was basically a quiet guy, then he go out (hang out?) with you and then (he was) average at that point.
SM: Did you ever work together?
JS: Had a job together at a Ford dealership in high school.
SM: Did you ever Met his parents?
JS: Yes I did.
A photograph is accepted into evidence. The witness identifies Fayed’s mother and father.
SM: Did you interact with Jim's dad?
JS: No, I didn’t. I stopped by his house but didn’t have a lot of interaction with him.
SM: Did you and Jim stay friendly through 20’s?
SM: What about Jim’s siblings? Did you know Patty?
JS: No, never personally met her. (snip) I remember Jim mentioning names, but didn’t have occasion to meet family members. I don’t know; she might have been at the house once.
The witness remembers meeting Tony (brother?) on several occasions.
JS: I don’t remember meeting John (another brother).
MS: At 26 (through?) 29 years old, where was Jim living then?
JS: If I recall he was living in Silver Spring (a suburb of Washington, DC).
(SM?) Jim was taking over family business and taking over house (payments?)?
JS: I believe he (Fayed’s father) was past away a that point.
He was taking care of his mother at this point.
AJ: Objection! (I miss the disposition.)
SM: If you know, what was Jim’s mom’s source of support at this time?
AJ: Objection! Lacks foundation!
Meister asks what Jim’s family business was.
JS: Electrical contractors. FAYCO Electric.
SM: Fay as in Fayed?
SM: Did you see Jim interacting with his mom?
JS: It was very, um, very good relationship. I thought
(there was) no animosity (and they) got along fine.
Another photo is presented.
SM: (Do you recognize people in that picture?
JS: (On the) right is Jim
SM: (The) left?
JS: Jim’s mother.
Meister asks if he knows where the photo was taken.
JS: That was their Silver Spring house.
SM: That’s Jim?
JS: Yes, it is.
Meister points out something in the photograph in the very low right hand corner.
SM: What's (in?) that corner.
SM: And that’s the period we’re talking about?
JS: That’s Jim.
SM: (Was that?) when you (were?) knowing him as young man, there?
JS: He looks like I remember him from high school, so shortly before they met. Probably just before he met.
SM: Was there ever a point where you lost touch?
JS: When he moved out west.
SM: Do you know how (old?) that was?
JS: It was probably the early 90’s. Probably a couple years before he moved out here. I was married at that time and had moved out to Mt. Airy and just not seeing too much of each other.
SM: Was Jim at your wedding?
JA: I have a wedding gift from him. (snip) I don’t recall everyone at my wedding. I just don’t don’t recall.
SM: Would you describe him as a hard working guy?
SM: What was he like socially?
JS: I think Jim was socially inept around large crowds but he was a great friend and was great if he knew you. He was always great to my wife. I thought he was a good person.
SM: How would he react in an unfamiliar social situation?
JS: He would pull back until he felt comfortable and if he felt uncomfortable he would take himself away.
SM: (He would) find a way to make an exit?
SM: Did you know him to be upset or angry or uncomfortable at certain times?
SM: If something was unpleasant , would he vocalize it?
JS: He would tend to keep it inside. There were guys who would known to pick fights and Jim was not one of them.
SM: Jim would take himself away rather than pursue it? How would he deal with conflict?
JS: Walk away. (He would) express anger after the fact but he wasn’t the one to go out and continue the trouble.
(?) If he was upset between friends, he wasn’t one to physically fight about it.
SM: Was he a touchy feely guy?
JS: No. I’m kinda the same way I tend to hold things in. Cover (my feelings?) up and go on with it all.
SM: How did he act around girls?
JS: Jim didn’t have a lot of girlfriends through high school and after that I know. He had several friends with girls (friends?) or gong out on dates.
Direct ends and cross begins. DDA Alan Jackson performs the cross.
AJ: Thank you for joining us. The period of time in your life that you knew each other (was?)?
JS: Friends through (our?) 20’s (meaning?) until 20 (‘s?).
AJ: Over 20 years ago?
JS: Yes, it’s been 20 years.
AJ: It’s ben 20 years since you’ve had much contact with Fayed. Was the last time you saw him you were, twenty-five, twenty-eight years old or so... (gotta do my math?)?
JS: Yes I think that sounds about right.
AJ: From (the time) he was fifteen, sixteen until twenty-five to twenty-eight and you were....?
JS: I got married at twenty-eight in (the) 90’s so it was probably thirty-one, starting at age sixteen.
AJ: So it was about 20 years ago that he had any personal contact with him.
AJ: (You) grew apart emotionally and geographically and an emotional standpoint?
AJ: You are not the same person that you (were back then? Have you) stayed the same since you were a young man in his
JS: I disagree.
AJ: Although the circumstances around you have changed, do you you think you’ve grown (as an individual)?
JS: Well certainly I ‘I've grown.
AJ: Do you think you’ve developed emotionally and interpersonally?
AJ: Emotionally I think I’m still the same. (snip) I think it’s jut how I look at life a little bit differently.
Jackson has a bit of back and forth with the witness who stands his ground that, emotionally, he’s still the same as he was when he was a young man. (I have in my mind that Jackson said at the end of this Jackson said something to the effect that he was a rare individual, or something to that effect.)
(?): Well, (when young you might have the perception) I’ll never see past 30 then you get to that point and then it comes and goes
(?) Comes and goes...
JS: I still have the (dro ?) faith that drives (me).
AJ: The core that makes you who you are is relatives consistent throughout your life?
AJ: Still married? (snip) You were just as good as the same day you got married? (snip) Well that's pretty good (according to your wife?).... (How about) changes that adults go through....
(?) Even the closest person to them, including their (spouse) and divorces (still) happen.
AJ: If we were all as lucky as you are, to have a 25 year relationship like you have, that's as (still ?).... Certainly you have no idea if Mr. Fayed grew a different way, or turned into a person much different than (what you knew)? (snip) But you didn’t know him in his 40’s or approaching his late 40’s?
AJ: Didn’t have vacations together? (snip) Never met his wife? (snip) Never met his kids (snip)?
Sadler states he knows something about Fayed’s children.
AJ: How do you know them?
JS: From what I’ve read and heard.
AJ: Studying up on this case right?
JS: It was more, what I heard um, after it all occurred.
I wouldn’t call it studying.
AJ: You were reading about (the case) curiosity, reading about circumstances?
JS: But, that’s not how I knew of them but I had done that.
AJ: You never met (them), never came to house, never knew how many houses, never visited houses never been on vacation together?
JS: Not in the last 20 years, no.
AJ: How often in last 20 years (have you) spoken to Fayed?
JS: I haven’t spoken (to him) in the last 20 years.
AJ: (Did you) exchange a card or letter?
AJ: When were you first contacted about potentially flying out her and providing testimony?
JS: Well, I spoke with one of the investigators two months ago, before the case started. I was just interviewed on what I knew about Jim or his background. But I wasn’t told that I would be testifying.
AJ: Were you ever told that James Fayed appraised (of the fact)c that he was accused of being involved in her murder?
JS: I was curious, and saw articles in the paper and on the Internet. There’s zero news back east.
AJ: Did you ever reach out to Mr. Fayed during the three years?
AJ: Did Mr. Fayed ever reach out to you in those intervening years?
Meister gets up to redirect his witness.
SM: Did you know where Mr. Fayed was during those three years?
JS: As far as I knew there was no visitation or contact (allowed).
The witness is excused and the next mitigation witness is called.
#2 JAMES TYLER
Mark Werksman presents the witness.
The witness states his name for the record. JAMES HEUBERT TYLER
MW: (Where did you) come from today?
JT: Mission Viejo, California.
The witness states he’s been retired, twice.
MW: You asked me if I would is you hand shaking?
JT: I don’t want any one to perceive I have anxiousness or anxiety. I had triple bypass surgery. I developed this within the last few months. It could be a side effect of the medications.
The witness missed a doctor’s appointment to be here today. Tyler is asked if he knows the defendant.
JT: He’s hard to recognize. but we were once very good friends.
The witness has a medal for heroism. He was in the marine core. He went into police work. Huntington Police Department, 7 years. He left because of a health issue. He then worked at the marine base, in El Toro, California. He worked there until 1999 to 2000. He put in 23 years at El Toro marine station.
MW: What was your occupation at the El Toro base?
JT: Initially I worked as a plumber. They then assigned me as a sign maker. (He had some drawing/artistic talent)
I came into contact with Fayed. I don’t remember the exact year.
The witness remembers that Fayed was brought into his shop as a new employee. (It was something that was done with new hires.)
JT: I Knew him 4-5 years before the base closed so around 92. He was a soft spoken mellow guy, and we had some similar interests. (snip) So once in a while when he was in the area (of each other’s work on the base) we would talk. I really liked the guy and would invite him over and I had no problem having him around my wife an family.
Fayed was a high voltage electrician.
JT: I don’t remember actually ever seeing him working in the field. We probably spoke on a daily basis (over the period of) 4-5 years.
JT: I can’t describe it any better. (snip) He was a non-aggressive, very mellow guy.
The witness explains that the base had a lot of theft with the civilian population. Fayed knew that he had a lot of interaction with NICS. There was a lot of concern for drug abuse on the base. The witness states that Fayed was responsible for the recovery of stolen high voltage wire.
JT: The supervisor had taken it to reuse it for a side job.
James Fayed faces the witness. For the first time that I’ve observed, he is turned toward a witness. He may have turned toward his first witness also.
JT: Just by knowing Fayed, he would come visit me at my house. He was so different in personality to the average civilian personality.
(Fayed was responsible for the return of the stolen property.)
JT: He would come to the house, and hang out.
I believe Tyler is asked if he remembers when Fayed first met his wife.
JT: I don’t recall. Fayed didn’t have a wife yet. (snip) He came up to me on day and said he had met somebody that he really really cared about, and then later, he advised me, they were going to relocate to Ventura.
Tyler doesn’t know the name of the woman.
JT: Then he moved away from the base .
MW: Did you maintain or continue your relationship.?
JT: We may have talked a few times after that.
Tyler states had a messy divorce so had to cut off his phone service (to stop receiving) strange phone calls so Fayed didn’t have a way to keep in contact with him.
MW: 1997 or 1998 around the last time you saw him, until the last time, the last contact (with Fayed)?
JT: One or two letters initially, but not (anything after). (snip) I thought he was kind, intelligent. I never thought or perceived a threat from anyone.
Direct is finished and Harmon gets up to cross the witness.
From memory, I believe Harmon thanked the man for his military service.
The witness served as a marine in Vietnam and served as a police officer in Huntington Beach.
EH: You served at a base in Orange County, and you saw many people come and go who were civilian who abused the system, stole from the system?
JT: Well, I met Fayed in 92. I cant remember the exact year, but that makes sense to me.
EH: Until the base closed and a little bit after that?
From that time, the witness saw Fayed socially and knew his work ethics. They spoke every day, and met for lunch.
EH: At that time, you formed an opinion that he was very nice not aggressive and very mellow?
JT: That’s what I knew of Jim at that time.
EH: Did you have any written correspondence since?
JT: I don’t believe so.
EH: As you sit here today, do you feel that you have enough inside (information?) into his character?
JT: I know a little about the circumstance, but no one has ever explained the case today.
I believe Harmon asks him something to the effect would it change his opinion if he knew certain facts.
JT: It would not change my opinion relative to the way he is relating to the time I knew him. (snip) I have no opinion as to how he is for the last 10 years or so.
EH: Fair enough.
JT: I never remember him speaking ill of anybody.
EH: You have no idea of the things he's said or done in the last (?) years?
EH: That what he’s been doing involved (with the)
gold market.... and murder?
JT: I don’t know about the murder
EH: Have you gone to visit him?
JT: No I have ot. (snip) I was told he was placed in custody in isolation and I haven't’ learned anything about his status.
EH: Other than this one instance of recovering the stolen cable, can you share with us any other instance that James Fayed was involved in?
The witness rambles on and I don’t catch what he’s saying.
JT: ....but ... I can’t recall. I genuinely liked the guy.
EH: Would you cal him your friend today?
JT: Due to the fact that I don’t know the circumstances of his conviction. I would probably lean toward I like the guy.
EH: you like the guy you knew?
The witness is excused and interestingly, as the witness leaves the stand, he tells everyone to have a nice day.
Next witness is Melanie Jackman.
Fayed looks at Melanie. He rocks back and forth in his chair.
#3 MELANIE JACKMAN
SM: Where d you live?
MJ: Mt Airy Maryland.
SM: Do you know James Sadler?
MJ: I met him on the airport shuttle on my way here.
SM: Do you know James Fayed.
Jackman points to him and smiles. Fayed smiles back.
MJ: One of my best friends.
SM: What do you call him?
I believe she answers “Jim.”
SM: Is it upsetting to be here?
SM: You’re aware that he's’ been found guilty of (first degree) murder and of special circumstances?
She grew up in Maryland. She cries. Meister gives her tissues. She grew in Brookville and (Alwiel?) Maryland. (Awley?)? She met James Fayed in high school.
SM: You became friends?
MJ: Yes. We hung out together.
SM: You cruised around (together?)?
MJ: He was a laid back easy going funny guy. Quiet.
SM: Was he kind?
SM: Did you, did the two of you lose touch in high school?
MJ: For a few years I left (moved away?)
Then he came back and contacted her. He stopped by the motorcycle shop of her and her husband Jerry (sp?) Jackman. Jerry started the motorcycle shop.
SM: What kind of a shop was it?
MJ: It was grandfather-claused in. Fully operational in the garage next to our house. (We) got a long standing permit to operate a business out of our home.
SM: How did you reconnect?
MJ: He showed up at the shop.
MJ: Our friendship started right up again.
SM: How long since you’ve (seen him)?
MJ: I haven’t seen Jim since he moved to California. (It’s) upsetting to be here.
Her, her husband and Fayed, all three became friends and they would do things, vacations together.
SM: Did Jim like to ride motorcycles.
MJ: Yes. He loved it; it’s our favorite past time.
Fayed watches her, smiles. She met his mother, father and sister Mary.
Meister asks her about a series of photos.
MJ: I recognize (this?). Jim is to the right with the mustache and Mary (Mary Mercedes?) is to the left. It looks like she's cutting the cake. (She) has ruffles on her sleeves.
SM: Kids birthday party?
MJ: Looks like it.
SM: Did the three of you take a trip to New Mexico?
MJ: Yes we did.
Next photo she describes. It’s a photo taken on the New Mexico mesa.
MJ: Jim and my husband Jerry.
SM: Jim on left Jerry on the right? Where taken?
MJ: Uh, south of Albuquerque New Mexico. (snip) I took the picture
SM: Jim like the outdoors?
MJ: Jim on the left, me in middle. Me and husband on right; same trip to New m=Mexico.
Jim and her favorite past time is riding motorcycles. They all like the freedom, the machines, the power.
SM: Did Jerry once built Jim a bike?
MJ: He built him two.
She starts to cry, sob on the stand.
SM: Why are you crying?
MJ: The last bike he built for Jim we spent hours and hours building him a factory 1963 Harley Davidson and I searched eBay to find new old stock parts in the box for the year of motorcycle (1963) for Jim's birth.
SM: Was it ever completed?
MJ: Yes it was. But we not able to deliver it because Jim was arrested.
SM: What did (Jerry?) do with the bike?
MJ: He took it apart.
She’s still crying on the stand.
SM: It’s very upsetting for you to talk about?
With heavy emotion, she responds.
MJ: The love we had for Jim, the love we put into building it. No one else would have that much love.
(Interesting that she got so upset over Jim never receiving this 'built with love' motorcycle. It makes you wonder where this woman’s moral compass lies.)
SM: When you would spend time... (snip) ...Do you remember when he came to California?
MJ: 1995 (or) 1996.
SM: Until then you and Jerry and Jim would spend time together back east? (snip) Jim came to your house?
SM: Do you have kids.
MJ: Yes. Josie (sp?). Josie (sp?) is 16.
Photo of Jim with her son Josie. and their dog Andy. Photo taken at her house.
MJ: That’s Jim on the left Jerry on the right in front of my old house.
MJ: That's Jim, a girl named Susan, a guy named dean, my husband Jerry and our dog Amis (sp?).
MJ: Jerry, Jim; hand behind our friend Mike, Joe and Dean.
SM: They were having a crab feast? Maryland pastime?
MJ: Maryland blue crabs.
MJ: That’s Jim in New Mexico. I took the photo. He’s going up a very rickety ladder at a ruins.
Another photo. t
MJ: That’s jim with some chili (?) in Sante Fe. (snip) I think I took that so he could have good picture for his mom.
MJ: That’s Jim again in New Mexico and it was near some sort of volcano.
SM: Jim didn’t have a serious girlfriend or relationship at that time?
MJ: At that time no.
Photos. Jim's and her dog Andy. Jim and one of her dog’s puppies. Another photo.
MJ: Jim a big kid and a baby. Don’t know who the baby is.
Another photo of Jim on a motorcycle, Harley Davidson.
SM: (You) guys had a lot of good times together?
SM: Then Jim moved out west?
SM: Before he did, still hanging out back east, did Jim sometimes find a reason to leave (a situation)?
MJ: Yeah. (He would say) he had places to go and people to see.
SM: Was there ever at time that found that he didn’t necessary (have an appointment or something to do)?
MJ: We caught him one time at his sisters house playing with the dog. And he was helping his sister out.
SM: Was he social, gregarious shy?
MJ: I wasn’t real shy; he was quiet. He never wanted to be the center of attention.
SM: Did eve seem that he felt awkward or...?
SM: Was he a guy who liked to talk about his feelings?
SM: Would he get hostile if asked about (personal things)?
MJ: He would just change the topic. He was more concerned about his friends.
SM: Did there come a time when he met someone special?
SM: About how long after he left did he tell you about it?
MJ: Im not exactly sure. He sent me a picture
of him and Pam on the beach and anther photo of his and Desiree on the beach.
SM: Did you eve meet Pam?
SM: Did you speak to her one the phone?
SM: Did Jim over the years send photos of the family? How frequently?
MJ: Almost ever year, I think.
SM: He kept i touch with you?
Another photo of Jim, Desiree on left and Jeanette the middle. Behind them, a Christmas tree.
SM: Those would be the pictures jim would send you?
SM: How did Jim sound when he told you he'd met Pam?
Did he sound happy?
MJ: He sounded like Jim. I met a girl. I really like her.
Jim didn’t really express a lot of feeling.
SM: Did he seem like an unfeeling guy at that point?
MJ: He was like me. I sit here and cry. Jim said he met a nice girl. I really like her.
SM: When you saw pictures of Pam, did you think Pam was pretty?
SM: How would I describe him? Jim’s a vertically challenged, heavy set guy.
Fayed smiles at his friends description of him.
MJ: When he came to California he looked pretty darn good.
SM: When you knew Jim, did he seem like a stable person? Did he seem like a loving person?
SM: A good person?
SM: And what kind of interaction (did you have) with Jim after he and Pam were together?
MJ: Just phone conversations. It went both ways. (He would call or) I would call, and Pam would pick up the phone.
SM: Did you (and Pam) have friendly conversations?
MJ: We did. (snip) Just silly stuff that they had done.
SM: Did you ever hear Jim badmouth Pam or say anything negative about her?
SM: Sounds like things were pretty good?
SM: They went through a rough time and they got separated? Did Jim ever call you before they separated to tell you how he was feeling?
MJ: Yes. He said that Pam was unhappy and what could he do.
SM: What could he do?
Meister asks to approach. He grabs his law books. Greg Fisher leaves.
It appears Meister is trying like heck to get in Fayed’s statement to her about his marriage. Sidebar is over.
SM: So, there was phone call, without telling us (what was said), there was a phone call in which James sounded like he was unhappy?
SM: And soon after you had learned that they hand separated?
SM: Did you learn (?) phone call, how did Jim sound?
MJ: He was like he had just woke up; groggy, slurred. (It was) mid afternoon here.
SM: Was he speaking slowly? Did he sound depressed,
MJ: Mildly depressed. Down in the dumps when the phone call finished. I told my husband and then he called Jim back. I was worried that Jim was suicidal.
SM: During the first conversation, did he seem to be tracking what he said, back and forth?
MJ: Not really. He sounded just out of it.
Right when direct ended and cross begins, I have in my notes “He called her Mrs. Sadler” but I don’t know who it was, either Meister or Harmon.
(?) Mrs. Sadler, you understand that Jim has been (convicted....)
Cross is performed by Harmon.
What year was it when you first met (the defendant)?
MJ: High school. (snip) I met his mom later, after we had disconnected.
EH: Ever visited with his sisters or brothers?
MJ: I knew him in high school just socially.
EH: Did you notice him having a regular (high school experience?)?
EH: Did he have friends?
EH: Did he go out socially?
EH: Did he have (birthday?) parties?
MJ: I don't know.
EH: Did he have holidays at home?
MJ: Home? I suppose.
EH: Did his parents both work?
EH: He had clothes on his back well fed?
EH: Seemed to have friends and a family life?
EH: And he had friends like you who showed him what it was like to be a father, and have a family.
MJ: I guess.
EH: He moved out here in 1992?
MJ: No it was later than that.
EH: It’s been sixteen years since you've laid eyes on him?
EH: Did you go on vacation with him since?
EH: Kept in contact by phone and E-mails?
MJ: More phone calls. I don’t recall E-mails with Jim.
MJ: It’s possible but I don't ever recall E-mails with him.
I was late coming into the Internet.
EH: You said Mr. Fayed never had a bad word to say about Pam?
MJ: Not to me.
EH: Is your e-mail address meljackman at comcast dot net? Is that you?
People’s exhibit #134.
EH: I ask you if this is an E-mail (he sent you)? Is this you here?
EH: I ask you if you would tell me if this is a n E-mail that Mr. Fayed sent you in March of 2008 about two months before he murdered his wife.
MJ: It looks like it but I don't’ recall it.
EH: Let me ask you if you could read for us, right here starting at... with as far as....
MJ: As far as the divorce (it) is getting real old so fast. Never mind how it goes; a money grubbing whore who will do everything to satisfying her greed (snip) ...get over this and moving on and having some fun for a change. (snip) Obvious I let her, I let her get away with this shit for years.
EH: So Mr. Fayed did speak ill of Pam before he plotted her murder?
MJ: Apparently but I don’t remember that.
EH: Lets look at People’s #135 mam.
Jacks m. Is that your husband's (E-mail)?
MJ: I take it (it’s) probably me.
EH: And this is a em E-mail about six moths before he plotted the murder of his wife?
“Do you know if Jerry wants to help me with his business when I get rid of this super bitch?”
EH: You don’t remember the times that he spoke ill of the wife he murdered?
MJ: I missed one. I missed two.
EH: I ask you about the motorcycle that caused you to cry. Did you ever meet Pam?
EH: (Do you know) what was the year of the murder?
Harmon asks her about the motorcycle she got so emotional over.
EH: Did he ever pay you?
MJ: He had a partial payment and he never got to pay the rest of it.
EH: And the thing that tore you up, that bike you built (for) a murderer? (snip) Do you still feel that same way?
MJ: I don’t thin it changes how I felt. I love Jim I understand that he's ben convicted and I cant’ change that. A lot of love went into that bike for him.
EH: In the months immediately following the murder (miss last).
MJ: I don’t think so.
EH: When was the last time you spoke to him?
MJ: I think it was before pam was murdered.
EH: Did you spend a lot of time thinking about (the murder)?
MJ: It’s not the Jim I know.
EH: You believe in your hear then, that James Fayed was lucky to have that person in his life?
EH: You described that, before the end you talked to him on the phone, and he was incoherent?
MJ: I said that he sounded out of it.
EH: How often did you speak to him? Was it on a daily (basis?)?
MJ: Daily, weekly. Other times it would be twice a month. Other times once a month. It was just random.
EH: During those times, did he ever express any anger or frustration to Pamela Fayed?
MJ: I cant remember.
EH: Do you think he was ever motivated by money?
MJ: In my opinion, no.
EH: Do you remember if he ever express being trapped in a marriage or trapped with a baby?
MJ: I don't’ recall.
Cross is finished and Meister gets up to redirect.
SM: The two E-mails; is it your testimony is you don’t remember receiving them?
MJ: I am now. I check my e-mail a lot. Back then, I didn't check it all that much.
She states now she does.
SM: When did you start your business?
She pauses... has to think. She can’t answer for a noticeable time.
MJ: I’ve been really on my E-mail the last year and a half because I added the E-mail to our business but before I didn’t really check it very much. Um, Im not sure how man years ago...
Meister is finished and there is no recross.
Fayed follows her with his eyes as she walks out of the courtroom. No further witnesses. Fayed and Meister speak. No further evidence from the people.
JK: Mr. Fayed has your counsel informed, you do you understand that you (shoot! I miss this; can’t remember.)
JF: Yes mam.
JK: And have right to testify, in the penalty phase? You give up that right?
JK: I would like to bring to everyone’s attention. no ones raised this a legal issue. (snip) But um, 6.35 of CALJIC so you can do some research. 6.35 of CaLJIC has the elements required for a solicitation. And the part that is troubling to the court and raises the issue the people has,
is the requirement that (there?) be direct testimony from a witness plus corroboration from two witness and so on. That issue, I need some authorities on you folks. I’m having a real problem that there are the elements of a solicitation... (snip) the criminal activity must be beyond a reasonable doubt. (snip) Does the defense have any special instructions? I haven't received anything from you.
JK: I've been working on them (the instructions) but I don’t have any copies for you yet, I can give you what I have, it’s not necessarily complete.
Meister (says, It’s) going faster than we thought as well.
JK: So, why don't (we) right now in the next (hour?), come back at 3:30 and research this issue, right now.
I don’t think I'm going to stay for this, so I take off. Hammering out jury instructions is one of the most boring parts to listen to. So that’s it for the end of this day. Tomorrow, probably more jury instructions and closing arguments.