January 7, 2011 afternoon session. Edited by Caligirl 9 at 5 p.m.
Correction edits by Sprocket 1/8 @ 9 p.m.
It’s 1:30 and we see the courtroom. One of the attorneys is talking to my favorite court reporter. I’m pretty sure that’s Mavis I see up on the screen.
Nicole did say “Gentlemen’s Club.” as to where she worked and met him. I missed the “Gentleman” part of the answer!
Witness #16—Elissa Fleak
DDA established where witness is employed and what job entails—she is an LA County Coroner Investigator. Performs investigations at scenes, notify family, write reports for pathologists, and assist investigation. Eight years (in job). Was working in that capacity in June 2009.
DDA Q: Learned of the death of entertainer Michael Jackson?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: In response to learning that information did you respond to UCLA medical center?
What time did you respond?
Fleak: Can I check my notes?
DDA Q: Yes.
Fleak: I arrived at hospital at 17:20 hours.
DDA Q: At UCLA ?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: 5: 20 pm?
Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: At your arrival to UCLA did you make physical observations of the decedent?
Fleak describes what she did and what her duties were: To perform an external body examination. “Anything I could infer, to the cause of death for my report.
DDA Q: Looking for wounds, knife wounds?
Fleak: Yes. Did not find anything at that time.
Investigator Fleak obtained 4 vials of blood from UCLA staff labeled Gershwin. [ed. note: recall explanation pseudonym from yesterday’s testimony]
DDA gives label number. Fleak replies, “Yes. Correct.”
DDA Q: Were those vials of blood logged into the coroner’s office?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Was to preserve them?
Fleak: Yes for toxicology purposes.
DDA: On that date did you respond to that location of 100 N Carolwood, LA?
Fleak: Yes. After ER room, I went to the house to observe the scene investigation.
She specifically did an investigation of that bedroom area.
(DDA puts up exhibit on the ELMO. Fleak identified where she was told the decedent was before taken to the hospital. Photo of the two tables, night stands; she identifies them.)
DDA Q: People’s 9. Recognize?
Fleak: Yes. The diagram of the second floor of the house.
DDA Q: Depicts the bedroom you just described?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: At this point did you begin taking photographs and documenting some of the items you found relevant to pertaining to cause of death.
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Begin with any prescription?
Fleak: Yes, I began with several pill bottles on the nightstand right next to the bed.
DDA Q: Did you document inventory?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Documented on a Coroner’s 3A form?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Do you remember what prescriptions you recovered?
Fleak: Yes I do.
DDA Q: What did you recover?
Fleak: Flomax, clonazapam, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone, and tiziandine. [ed. note: will research and clarify for accuracy]
Also collected several pill bottles, tubes of lotion. Hydrocodone [ed. note: Vicodin]. Tube of Lidocane lotion that was it on the nightstand [ed. note: Lidocaine lotion may have been used to reduce pain when starting IV].
DDA Q: How about Benoquin?
Fleak: Yes. There was Benoquin.
DDA Q: Lotion in a tube?
Fleak: Yes it was.
DDA Q: Did you document who prescribed?
Fleak: reports diazepam (Valium), Flomax, Lidocaine lotion, lorazepam (Ativan), temazepam (Restoril, a sleep aid) prescribed by Dr. Murray. [ed. note: A cardiologist prescribing a med for prostatic hypertrophy?] Clonazepam (antianxiety), trazodone (antidepressant) by a Dr. Metzger, name missed prescribed by Dr. Klein [ed. note: presume Benoquin as it’s a medication used for vitiligo]
DDA shows Investigator Fleak photos of a night stand, close up of table next to night stand,
DDA Q: Do you see the two separate tables? (Shows photo. Line of questioning and answers describes another photo of area where prescription bottles were, in a basket in the lower shelf of one of the tables, as well as other areas of the table.
(There is a tube of Lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground, next to the bed.)
The plunger and the top part of the syringe (to which you would attach a needle)?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows new photos of syringes, of oxygen tank, other items, taking Investigator Fleak through identifying photos with more items, including an IV bag with connected tubing.
Fleak described some of the equipment. Blue “Ambu” bag goes to a nasal cannula. [ed. note: Actually it would be connected directly to oxygen tubing and not a nasal cannula.]
Fleak notes “I did describe it as a broken’ syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.”
Syringe on the table, needle on the floor. DDA asks Fleak if they may have been together they may not have been. Fleak answers correct.
DDA Q: Was there also an IV stand—(interrupted)
(Sprocket note: I think someone was knocking at door—bailiff got up.)
DDA Q: [Regarding location of IV stand] If you were facing at the bed, at the foot of the bed, the head of the bed it would be to your right?
Fleak: Yes. [ed. note: This makes sense, as the IV was positioned in Jackson’s left leg.]
(Sprocket note: I’m starting to yawn. I got less than four hours of sleep last night. It’s going to be a long two hours now.)
DDA is showing Investigator Fleak photos of nightstand and IV stand and IV kit attached and asks her to identify.
Fleak. Yes. She describes where everything is. “It’s a saline bag” [ed. note: IV solution]
DDA Q: In addition to observations of what you described, did you locate a jug that appears to be a jug of urine?
Fleak: There was a chair behind and to the left of you that had a bottle of urine and several urine pads.
DDA identifies Peoples 35.Fleak identifies the items in the photo.
DDA Q: Medical-type container for holding urine?
Fleak: Correct.
DDA Q: Recovered an open box of disposable hypodermic needles?
Fleak: Yes. It was on the two tables as well.
DDA Q: Recovered IV catheters?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Is it all documented in your form?
Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Recovered an empty vial of Propofol and (garbled; could be midazolam
or lorazepam, both of which were given and are given IV)?
Fleak replies vials were found between the two nightstands. DDA presents more photographs for Investigator Fleak
DDA Q: Was this an empty full, partially full bottle of Propofol?
Fleak: It was empty. (She verifies where the Propofol vial was on the floor.)
DDA Q: 200 mg bottle of Propofol?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Now did you return to the location of 100 N Carollwood on June 29th 2009?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: Continued your investigation?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA shows Fleak some photos for clarification.
DDA Q: Describe if you will, if you would walk from this area, bedroom 2 closed.
Fleak: It’s an attached room lined with wooden closets lined with wood.
DDA Q: About the size of a regular room?
Fleak: Yes.
(She went into this closet area to investigate.)
DDA Q: Recovered items that were logged into evidence? Fleak says yes.
Was that logged (the syringes) as medical evidence #1?
Fleak: Yes.
Describes how items were logged into evidence and the numbers given.
People’s 39, 40, 41, 42 43 44 45 photos presented and Fleak describes.
Ppl 39. This is the closet area. Wooden cabinet area. Shows evidence that she collected on 29th. Showing ppls 40 close up of same items. Some bags as well as some plastic bags containing items.
DDA Q: Did you remove those items from that cabinet and inventory them on that day?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Is this a photo of some of those items after being laid out on a table?
Fleak: Yes it is.
DDA Q: Describe items.
Fleak: Black square bag with a zipper, recovered from cabinet area. One dark blue bag with a zipper with “Costco” on the outside. Light blue and brown colored bag with a zipper with “baby essentials” bag; misc. medical supplies.
DDA Q: As well as creams?
Fleak: Yes bag full of Benoquin lotions. Yes, those are bottles, tubes of lotions.
DDA Q: Did you empty and inventory the contents of these items?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: This box, a black pressure cuff? Bottles?
Fleak: Three bottles of Lidocaine. Vials of Lidocaine. [ed. note: Differs from Lidocaine cream/lotion in that this solution is added to Propofol to reduce pain upon injection.]
Fleak checks notes to remember if the bottles were full or not. “Two were empty and one of them had some liquid in it. All three of them had been opened.” They were 30 milliliter bottles. Large dark blue Costco bag.
DDA Q: Did you find saline bag that had been apparently cut open?
Fleak: Yes I did.
DDA Q: Find anything in that saline bag?
Fleak: A bottle of Propofol inside that cut-open bag.
DDA shows Fleak a photo.
Flea: Yes (that’s what she found).
DDA Q: Can you describe what I’m showing; can you describe?
Fleak: It’s a slit in the bag.
DDA Q: Did you take this photograph? That was the Propofol bottle that was inside the IV bag?
Fleak: Yes.
DDA Q: In addition the IV bag with the slit in and the 100 mg. Propofol you mentioned, what else did you find?
Fleak: 20 ml bottle of Propofol bottle. Back to 100 ml bottle; it was open and had liquid in it. Twenty ml. open with liquid in it. Ten ml. lorazepam (Ativan) bottle open with liquid in it. Two bottles of midazalom (Versed) 10 ml both open, both had liquid in them.
DDA Q: Was there any other items in there?
Fleak: A bloody piece of gauze, a bag of miscellaneous packaging, medical packaging and a finger pulse monitor.
Fleak also did same inventory of the light blue and brown “baby essentials” bag.
2 100ml bottles of Propofol
2 20 ml bottles of Propofol unopened
(3?) bottles of 20
3 20 ml bottles of Lidocaine opened
1 30 mil bottle of Lidocaine unopened
20 ml bottle of diazepam opened
(Sprocket note: I can’t keep up.)
more unopened. 5 mi diazepam opened.
1 4ml (Sprocket note: I missed) opened
1 4ml of diazepam unopened.
DDA Q: Where there other items?
Fleak replies: Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 capsules turned out to be ephedrine. Over-the-counter night drops. Five bus cards of Dr. Murray. An IV clamp. A blue strip of rubber.
Fleak recognized the rubber as used for a tourniquet.
DDA Q: In total, looking at contents of both bags, is accurate to say, there were 11 bottles of Propofol?
Fleak: correct
DDA Q: In addition to the one empty bottle on the floor of Propofol there were a total of 12 bottles of Propofol. Is it true there were six bottles of Lidocaine?
Fleak: I’d have to count.
DDA Q: Could you please?
Fleak: Six, correct.
DDA Q: In addition to the Lidocaine lotion. Correct.
Another photo exhibit. Photo of some of the contents of the “baby essentials” bag.
Describes the items that were all in the photo...medicines.
DDA: Nothing further.
Defense CROSS FLANAGAN.
Q: You made a search of the bedroom on 25th in the evening?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: And that’s where you obtained all of the photos and the bed and the surrounding the bed?
Fleak: Some were taken on the 29th. I was told by detectives additional information medical evidence at the house.
Q: They told you Dr. Murray told them a location and what they had? Did they tell you the interview that they had was from Dr. Murray?
Fleak: Yes. (Objection, sustained, reply stricken from record.)
Q: Did they tell you what information they had that you—(Objection, sustained).
Why did you go back on the 29th?
Fleak: I was told there was additional evidence at the house.
Q: Detective Smith. Did he tell you what there was?
Fleak: No.
Q: Did he tell you where to look?
Fleak: Yes. In that closet room.
Q: Had you looked in that room on the 25th?
Fleak: I did not. I may have glanced in the room but I did not search it.
Q: So you went back looking for evidence that Detective Smith said would be there.
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you search any of the other items, any of the other drawers?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was all of the stuff that you found that you took into your custody, was all in that one little area? (lists the bag)
Fleak: Those three bags were found in that cabinet, yes.
Q: When you went through and searched all the drawers and cabinets in that room, did you ever find a trash bag?
Fleak: What type of trash bag? Like a grocery trash bag? No. In the plastic bag, there was something that was crumpled up...
(Discussion about bag and baggies.)
It was clear plastic bag about a gallon. There was no zipper, it was just open at the top.
There was clumpled-up plastics, like disposable syringes, the packaging surrounding syringes, tissues, crumpled up.
Q: Like anything that had biological material on it?
(Sprocket note: missed answer. I’m almost falling asleep.)
Fleak: It was in the Costco plastic bag, but I don’t remember specifically if it was crumpled up.
Defense now questions about the IV bag with the Propofol bottle in it, questioning Fleak about how much was left in the bottle. She didn’t inventory for amount any bottles that were opened.
Notes printed, residual. She means the bag was fingerprinted. She doesn’t remember how many bottles were full or less full, she didn’t document that at the time.
Q: You fingerprinted?
Fleak: I didn’t fingerprint. Notes mean the bottle was open, it had liquid in it and it was fingerprinted.
At this time, I believe it was possible to be fingerprinted. We are not fingerprinted at that time when I wrote my notes.
Q: You didn’t use the term positive for liquid you just have residual?
Fleak: “In my mind it means the same thing. It was just how I was taking notes.”
Q: The black square bags. On things you have listed, it’s crossed out.
Fleak: It ‘s just a number 2.
Q: The first item was the first bag. (Sprocket note: I’m not getting this.)
Fleak: I don’t know why I crossed that number out. Two vials... Empty means there was on liquid in it that I could see.
Clarifies her notes how she listed the items.
Q: The Costco bag was a mixture of partially used and full bottles? Did they all have liquid in them?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Some were partially used?
Fleak: Correct.
Q: The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”
Did it have liquid in it?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did you have it fingerprinted?
Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it.
Fleak: Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?
Halfway from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liquid in the syringe.
Q: Was the plunger completely depressed?
Fleak: I don’t remember exactly where it was.
Q: Was there residue?
Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Was there more tubing below that IV port?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did that tubing have liquid in it?
Fleak: I don’t remember.
Q: Did the tubing above it have liquid in it?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Was that clear?
Fleak: Yes
Q: Was the IV bag clear?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: Did it have a milky appearance to it?
Fleak: It was clear. [ed. Note: this is setting up the “Jackson self-injected” theory. Defense attorney was asking for location of ports, or openings, in the IV tubing, and the location of those ports, theorizing a port was close enough for Jackson to use and then clear the tubing above with saline.]
Q: When you went back on the 29th, was this the only thing you collected from the bedroom?
Fleak: Yes.
(Sprocket note: missing some of this exchange)
Q: One of the items, I think this bag, fingerprint dusted, the only [thing] you remember is from the IV bag itself?
Fleak: Yes. Remembers that the IV bag had about 1/2 to 3/4 full when it was hanging.
Q: You were there on the 25th, and you found quite a few things. Can I have the photographs?
The break was called at 2:46pm
3:03 pm
Resumption of cross of Coroner Investigator.
Fleak: "There was a vial, with some medications.”
Q: They all appeared to be used?
(Sprocket note: did not hear answer)
Q: What was crumpled up?
Fleak: The packaging.
Q: You described that as a bag of medical garbage?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: All of these things, all of the vials, hand been used? Is that correct?
Fleak: Yes.
Q: They were open and they had liquid in them?
Fleak: All those things as trash? (Objection, sustained.)
Q: In the main room, where was the IV bag on the stand that had the syringe in it? In that room? In this corner. (She's pointing to an exhibit on the screen with a laser pointer.)
Why wasn’t that taken on the 25th?
Fleak: I wasn’t taking anything that was injectable. I’m usually looking for pill bottles. At the time I didn’t know what Propofol was when I was there. I didn’t know it was injected intravenously. I didn’t know it would be used to administer the drugs that were there.
Q: So you saw the IV drugs there?
Fleak: I saw bottles of medications.
Q: Asks about the “broken” syringe.
Fleak: I should have described it as “separate.” It was not cracked it was not broken it was not defective in any way. They were just separate—the needle and the plunger.
Q: As you sit here now you would have described it as a broken syringe?
Fleak: No I wouldn’t it.
Q: Why did you collect that?
Fleak: It was on the ground near the bottle on the ground.
Q: Did you ask for these things to be fingerprinted?
Fleak: I don’t remember?
Q: Is it part of your role to ask for things to be fingerprinted?
Fleak: No.
Q: So (what is your role?) you collect and put away? Maintain custody?
Fleak: In a complete death investigation we have more responsibilities than just collecting and logging evidence. (A coroner's investigator) performs a body investigation, notifies families, performs a death scene investigation... (She mentioned a few more tasks).
Q: On that day, did you notice the IV with the pole with the IV syringe?
Fleak: Yes I did.
Q: Why did you not take that into custody? (Objection, asked and answered. )
Did you notice on the table some juice bottles? They were labeled the Naked Juice company.
Were they empty?
Fleak: Yes.
(Missed question)
Fleak: I did not collect those juice bottles and I did not document what was in them.
Q: You left them there at the scene?
Fleak: Yes. They were on the table next to the bed.
Q: And the syringe, was it in reachable distance of the bed? (Objection! Sustained!)
[ed. note; here we go!] How far was the syringe from the bed?
Fleak: About 2 feet.
Q: And the syringe? (Miss answer)
Q: Bottle of Propofol, how far was that?
Fleak: I don’t know if it was one foot, or..??? (Sprocket note: I missed last part of answer.)
Q: Defense attorney asks, something about what about a 136 pound, 5'9" man, could they have reached it? (Objection! Calls for speculation! Sustained!)
Did you take the Ambu bag into custody?
Fleak: No I did not.
Q: The open box of disposable needles how close was that to the table?
Fleak: Couple feet.
Q: So if that was on the table so you could reach that? (Objection! Sustained.)
We lost our feed.
It came back.
Fleak: Both vials on the floor were empty. No liquid that I could see. I could not see and I did not check the inside of those vials.
Q: When you seized these items, where did you take them?
Fleak: To the coroner’s office.
Q: What did you do with them? B
Fleak: booked them into evidence.
Q: Did you inspect them?
Fleak: As far as the labels... (Sprocket note: I think that's her answer.)
Q: Did you inspect them, as far as the portions?
Fleak: No.
That’s it for cross No redirect.
Judge asks to see the attorneys at side bar.
Beth Karas got to come in to the courtroom right at the restart of the session for about 5 minutes, and then she had to go back out again. I’m betting she would really like to be in the courtroom, hearing the testimony.
No additional witnesses today. The prosecution is ahead of schedule. 9:00 a.m. Monday to discuss evidentiary matters. 10 a.m. for testimony.
Friday, January 7, 2011
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19 comments:
Other places are claiming that these questions were also asked, but you haven't included this in your entry. Can you clarify? Thanks
justice_4mj:
Defense asked questions if whether a 5"9" man could
have reached a the nightstand to the propofol bottle and inject himself.
MJJCommunity:
The defence even insinuated that Michael
reached across grabbed the 100mg bottle of propofol grabbed an needle and injected himself
Please be patient with me. I just got home a bit ago and I'm trying to get a final edit on my notes.
Yes, I did hear that question. It was asked but objected to and sustained.
I don't recall a question about asking if someone could inject himself, (there may have been; we lost the feed for a few moments) but all the questions were leading in that direction...basically, was the IV within reach, were the needles within reach. Those questions were not answered because they call for speculation.
Thank you for the detailed information, much appreciated.
For what it's worth.....I noticed Tizanidine listed above(spelled tiziandine in your post). The brand name for this muscle relaxant is Zanaflex. ( Perhaps can save CaliGirl some research.....not necessary to publish).
Get some rest lady! :)
Thanks so much for all of the excellent reporting!
The list of meds left behind logged in by the coroner's investigator reads like the inventory in our anesthesia work room. Interesting that no mention of the empty 100ml propofol vials being spiked with piggybck tubing. Murray was probably injecting into the running NS bag and relying on the dilution as his "drip" technique, supplemented with bumps from the 20ml vials.
Also sounds like he repacked all his "supplies" received at Nicole Alvarez' home into the freebie diaperbag pouches (probably from the hospital) that she had laying around after the birth of her baby.
And what a pig Murray was to leave all the medical waste laying around, along with urine bottles and chux.
And note the ambu bag out in the open-- sheesh. Never once used during the resuscitation efforts.
I also think it's noteworthy that NO narcotics are in inventory with the voluminous amounts of benzo's. Goes to my theory that narcs were avoided due to showing up on drug tests, and benzo's being "allowed" somehow. And ephedrine tabs to perk up for rehearsal. Nice pharma cocktail-- he was destined for overdose. It was inevitable.
I'd also like to comment that I don't think MJ shows any type of pattern that would lend speculation to him injecting himself. By all accounts (previous comments from house staff and a nurse), MJ was a "wimp", and wanted someone to do his injecting for him. I think he was afraid of killing himself. He had ample opportunity to inject himself, and never did up to this point. Why would he start at that particular point in time? Makes no logical sense.
Anyway, thanks again for your excellent reporting! Much appreciated! I look forward to reading more next week!
I hope Monday, CaliGirl will be rested, because after this horrible woman from the Coroners..We have to be very attentive. I hate the idea that he could injected himself, this is such a BS. Thank you...
You. are. a. lifesaver. I cannot thank you enough for doing this. For 18 months now we have been without answers, disecting every iota of information we've received (while trying to even determine its validity). To finally have some confirmation (even if it's not what we'd like to hear) is really great. I don't know what we'd be doing if it weren't for you. We'd really be going insane. I don't see many comments here, but let me tell you - your blogs are supplying *thousands* of fans all around the world with precious information. I've spent 8 hours a day the past week on a couple of different MJ message boards following this and discussing it with hundreds of others in the same thread and you're the main source for all of us. You don't know what this means to us to have a link to inside that courtroom. Thank you - on behalf of MJ fans from all over the world, thank you.
@ KZ:
Yes! You summed up exactly what I was thinking as I was going through this! As I was reading about the manner in which Propofol was strewn about, I tried to think about the messiest code I’d ever worked on, and we didn’t leave as much crap lying about!
The thing we have to remember is the “scene” that the coroner’s investigator observed was after Jackson was worked on in the bedroom and after Murray’s clean-up efforts. For example, she reported the IV stand was at the head of the bed, on patient’s left, but the IV was placed in the left (lower) leg. Don’t most health care professionals place the IV stand on the same side as the placed IV, close to the insertion site? And isn’t it telling that an IV could not/was not placed in either arm by Murray?
And people think Jackson was healthy! He was in poor, poor shape!
And Dr. Murray asking for magnesium to be given, when it’s clearly indicated for v-fib, and as a cardiologist, he should have known that, nor was v-fib the rhythm on the paramedics’ EKG!
I’m looking forward to a couple of facts coming out: First, I am wondering if the drugs found in the tox screen were specifically asked for; in other words, the tox screen wasn’t for “whatever you find.” Second, I wonder if the hair sample taken six weeks after death have been run, and what was found.
Have you read the autopsy report? Propofol and Lidocaine found in stomach contents? Strange… if Jackson didn’t have the knowledge how to access a port (I’m assuming all IV tubings nowadays are needleless…), could he have squirted some down the hatch himself, thinking that was as good a way of taking it as any?
That being said, Murray is still responsible given the delay in proper treatment and notification of 911, regardless of how the Propofol got into him.
Thanks for stopping by!
From what I've read, it appears that Murray slit a tear in an IV bag and filled it with several bottles of Propofol... and did not properly monitor MJ's oxygen intake which lead to his death.
P.S. And don't get me started regarding my opinion of the use of a condom catheter and the chux! Not exactly equipment you use on a healthy person?
@ Anon: It wasn't the coroner's investigator suggesting Jackson self-medicated, it was Murray's defense attorneys! Investigator Fleak has no stake in how this shakes out.
Condom catheter and chux.. Why would MJ need that? WTH was going on in there?!
@ Anon immediately above:
Jackson had moderate prostatic hypertrophy, hence the Flomax medication. I have two theories (KZ, jump in if you can add to this):
1. Murray put Jackson far enough under that he was incontinent.
2. Jackson's prostate problem was bad enough that he had overflow problems, in other words, was incontinent or dribbled urine.
A health care professional would use a chux when starting an IV, underneath the insertion site, to keep the sheeets clean of any accidental drips of blood or IV fluids. As I recall, the messed-up chux was found in the middle of the bed, as if it had been placed in the buttocks/perineal area.
Yes, it is icky to think about, but certainly adds credence to the paramedics thinking they were looking at a deceased hospice patient: thin, emaciated, pale, and with a condom catheter and chux in use to deal with bodily secretions. Normal things to see in use with a very ill person—not so much with what was supposed to be a healthy 50-year old man.
Are you positive that hydrocodone was found? Hydrocodone was not in the autopsy report. Another site said hydroconone benoquin which is actually hydroquinine benoquin. Thank you for all of your hard work!
@ Anon immediately above:
We go by what Sprocket hears in a room with poor audio. Her ears heard hydrocodone. Yes, hydrocodone is NOT part of Investigator Fleak's list, but Sprocket's ears heard hydrocodone, and they have heard it more than once.
MAY I REPEAT: We do NOT have the benefit of being IN the courtroom. We do NOT have official court transcript. We are NOT an official media source nor should we be held to those standards. We are a group of writers who enjoy observing and writing about the criminal justice system. We do NOT have a dedicated fact-checker looking at documents posted on The Smoking Gun and looking for inconsistencies.
And what would be so terrible about Michael Jackson having or needing hydrocodone for pain? He had facet disease in his lumbar spine, and it is quite painful.
Couple of things:
An indwelling urinary cath would be the thing to use in someone with BPH, not a condom one since it is an obstruction problem that only an indewelling cath would overcome. The only reasonable explanation not to have had it is the frequent in and out of this treatment making an indwelling painful and non practical for such short term treatment (hours vs days at a time).
Hydrocodone nor its metabolites were found in the tox report. Last year i did an extensive review of the autopsy and one thing that stricked was that albeit all these meds bottles (the oral ones) were found in the room they reflected a normal to low use habit (by matching the quantity of pills to the date of the prescription to whatever was left at the time of this event) Sparing use would be the term I would use.
The toxicology is a basic panel we use. You can add drugs to be tested based on your suspicions according to the investigation.
by: MJAddictedMD
@ MJAddictedMD
You explained the use of the condom catheter far better than I! I guess I just didn't want to write about it, so I tiptoed around it. It's so very sad to me that a man as young as Michael jackson was that symptomatic that the external catheter and chux in the bed were used (I know it happens earlier then 50 in some men).
I did address the lack of certain drugs being found in the tox screen in a post I just made. Doesn't mean something wasn't there, just means it wasn't tested for.
As a fellow sufferer of facet disease secondary to my former career, if MJ needed Vicodin and a muscle relaxant every day in order to function, dammit, he was entitled to it! I might not be a fan of MJ, but he had a legitimate reason to take pain meds and if he did, big deal. I'll defend him for that. If that's what it took for him to remain active, let him have it! There was zero evidence he abused those drugs (at the time of his death), and there is no shame in his possessing them.
This case is about the crap that Conrad Murray left strewn about in that bedroom. The lack of judgement boggles my mind, and I'm just a former RN! Why didn't MJ just go to a sleep specialist? If only ... hindsight is 20/20.
@CaliGirl9
And anyone else who have been wondering about the propofol in the stomach. This medical article states how morphine that was injected intravenously ends up in the stomach contents. Although the user never orally took any, it still ended up in the stomach contents due to the entero-hepatic circulation. So, just because Michael had propofol in his stomach does not mean he orally ingested any of it. Some people believe that since it was in his stomach, he drank it (suicide). And even though this article focuses on morphine... propofol could very well behave in the same manner. See here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19674239
I hope this helps.
Dr.Murray said MJ was dehydrated yet there were jugs of urine found in the room. He was giving him flomax (isn't that so MJ COULD urinate?) He put a condom catheter on MJ probably because he had him so sedated that if he didn't he would urinate all over himself. Poor MJ he only wanted to get a little sleep.. I don't blame him for taking pain meds because if you look at his autopsy he did have arthritis in his lower back and hands which is extremely painful.. too bad MJ put way too much trust in people he was 50 and had seen the world but yet so damn naive!
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