Day 15 – 1/28/08
Dr. Mainland is back on the stand for re-direct by Jambois.
Going through the stages of ethylene glycol poisoning. The more consumed, the stage can be accelerated.
Stage 1 is 30 minutes to 12 hours – person will act like they’re drunk.
Stage 2 is 12 to 24 hours, the cardio respiratory phase.
This is where the ethylene glycol gets absorbed into the body. Rapid heavy breathing, heart racing.
Stage 3 is 24 to 72 hours, the renal phase. Crystals get deposited into the kidney.
Stages can overlap.
Conclusions were made by Mainland from statements made by Mark, David and Paul Griffin (Julie’s brother).
Julie’s breathing started to improve Thursday afternoon. Probably because she had passed through stage 2 already and was getting ready to die.
Mainland is asked about whether Dillard could have made his story up. Mainland doesn’t believe he could because it fits to closely.
Mainland believes that Julie was very near death from ethylene glycol, but she was finished-off by smothering.
Mainland says based on Julie’s condition there would have been no need for Ambien to be prescribed! Mainland reviewed Dr, Borman’s file on Julie. Mainland says she saw no indication of suicidal tendencies.
Mainland says Julie was not depressed based on the files and statements made by friends.
Mainland saw Julie’s letter. Most everything in the letter influenced her opinion. Especially the part that said, “I would never take my life because of my kids, they are everything to me”.
Dr. Mainland, you don't treat live patients? No.
You don't deal with patients who are alive and depressed? No.
You don't prescribe medications for patients who are alive and depressed? No.
Discussion of Teresa Di Fazio's depiction of note. Dr. Mainland thinks it's possible someone else had written the note, given the condition she was in.
Albee: Dr. Mainland stated Julie couldn't make a phone call and she could. Dr. Mainland says Mrs. Wojt said she sounded drunk and her interpretation was that she was clearly ill.
There is a debate as to what Mrs. Wojt might or might not have done... in terms of calling for help for Julie.
Able interprets Julie's not wanting help was that she didn't want help so she could commit suicide. Dr. Mainland doesn't agree.
Judge says it's up to the jury to decide and they should disregard answers. Able asks if DiFazio's testimony would change her mind in that she said it was Julie's handwriting. Dr. Mainland agreed.
Albee elicits that Dr. Mainland views the case as a homicide and that some people have the motivation to lie and some don't. She feels she is capable of interpreting the testimony based on her medical background.
She has read statements from many of the witnesses. It's a common practice for the ME. She hasn't done any phone call interviews.
Albee asks if she is aware Julie turned down help from the police. Dr. Mainland says she may have been scared to death of what her husband would do.
She does NOT feel that Julie turned down police help so she could commit suicide.
She knows of many cases of emotionally abused women who are afraid to get help.
Dr. Mainland is speaking out for Julie Jensen here, and Mr. Albee is asking her questions that are misleading.
Albee is putting words into her mouth again.
Albee re: police interview with Mark Jensen, April 21, 1999.
Did she consider statements in that report? YES
She indicated Aaron Dillard COULD make up his story. She says she believes it because Dillard's testimony backs up suffocation and ethylene glycol poisoning.
Albee: You can die of both poisoning and suffocation.... Yes
You can be beaten and stabbed...
If she had signed death certificate she would have said ethylene glycol poisoning and probable asphyxiation.
She finds Dillard believable. His testimony jibes completely with physical evidence. Can't see motivation.
Albee: How about getting out of 8-year jail sentence.
Albee: A good con man would have knowledge of what would make his story acceptable to prosecution? OF COURSE
Albee: It is important to know there isn't another source for the evidence except for Mark Jensen. YES (suffocation)
Jambois: objection, asked and answered (overruled)
We are hearing a lot of repetitious information here.
Dr. Mainland doesn't know that Aaron Dillard read the police report that mentioned suffocation.
There were things he said that NO ONE had access to.
Albee keeps pushing Dr. Mainland to admit that Dillard could have gotten the information from sources other than Mark Jensen.
Judge calls a break.
Judge tends to believe that this line of testimony is okay.
Jambois: Wants to parade self-serving evidence before the jury without calling Jensen. Cites evidence of rib bruising and injury in back of neck.
Judge: Evidence not for the truth of the matter.
Jambois: No evidence in reports of Mark sitting on her! Nobody knew about it! This could only come from Mark Jensen telling Dillard.
Albee: The transcript has numerous references to smothering, sitting on her, etc., etc.
Judge: Refresh his memory!
Albee: Quotes Chambliss testimony. Julie was found with her face in the pillow, more discussion of fingernail, rear anterior neck, asphyxia death, choked her, put a pillow over her face and smothered her, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
Jambois points out that, in all the citations Mr. Albee mentioned, that indicates he sat on top of her rib cage.
Judge: It did! Asked if Mark sat on her. He will allow the examination.
There is no indication Mr. Dillard saw this report. They would need additional testimony to prove it.
Albee says there will be conclusive evidence that the transcript was in Mark Jensen's jail cell.
Judge will allow the line of questioning.
Albee: Det. Ratzburg provided information about the autopsy in his interview. He is talking to Mark Jensen about his view of the autopsy.
Asphyxia was discussed. Mr. Albee seems to think that this was Ratzburg lying to Jensen. Dr. Mainland did not have an opinion that cause of death couldn't be asphyxia. She says that at the time of the hearing, she didn't have enough evidence to prove it, just to consider it as a possibility.
She is STILL calling it probable terminal asphyxia because she didn't do the autopsy.
We are now arguing hypothesis vs. opinion!
Mr. Albee is taking her through lines of transcripts. We have all heard this before. He's doing his job defending his client, but he and Dr. Mainland are going round and round.
Albee is again concluding Aaron Dillard must have read the transcript of the interview between Ratzburg and Jensen.
Mr. Albee is asking if Dr. Mainland has a problem with answering hypotheticals from the defense.
Dr. Mainland is aware that he is accusing her of being biased against the defense. She says she is neutral.
Holy cow, Dr. Mainland will have to come back later due to scheduling of witnesses. We are now going to zip through 6 rapid-fire witnesses!
On the stand now is Lynley Kapellish. She worked with Mark for several years.
She was the first person to answer calls that came into the office.
Did Mr. Jensen say he was having harassing type calls or messages, or mail? No.
The office supervisor opened all mail that came into the office. Lynley opened it when the supervisor was out. Never received any pornographic mail.
Julie would visit the office and bring the kids. Julie was a very loving mother toward the kids.
During the time you worked with Mark, do you recall anyone hanging up on you when you answered the phone? No.
We asked the identity of who was calling.
Lynley now works for the Kenosha County jail!
Did Mark tell you Julie was having an affair? No. Lynley and Mark had no personal conversations.
State calls Joan Scully. She also worked with Mark. The brokers never open their own mail.
Jensen never told her that he was receiving pornographic mail or harassing phone calls.
She is being shown the same postcard Lynley was shown. Joan doesn't remember it.
Did Mr. Jensen ever speak to you about Julie having an affair? No.
Would you have had that type of conversation with Mark? No.
State calls Eric Schoor. This was David's childhood friend. He is 17. Senior in high school.
He and David were in 3rd grade together. Teacher was Ms. Di Fazio.
On Wednesdays they would alternate going to each other's home for 3 hours or so.
Mrs. Jensen was really nice and caring.
Did you ever see Mrs. Jensen sitting at the computer at the house? No. He did see Mark at the computer a few times.
In December did you have a conversation with David about Mrs. Jensen's health? Yes, the day before her death.
David was extremely concerned and worried about his mom's health.
Objection! It sounds as though the State would rather not call David Jensen, although he is under subpoena. Defense can call him, if they like...I don't think either side should put David on the stand. Besides being painful for the boy, I expect that it is going to blow up in one of their faces.
David said his mom was sick and his dad wouldn’t take her to the hospital. Eric imitates the way David said his mom was breathing. Heavy and raspy.
Eric had been to David’s house after Julie died. He was introduced to Kelly at the house about a month after Julie died. He saw Mark and Kelly in Mark’s bedroom during the daytime.
When you saw Mark and Kelly, they weren’t embracing? No.
It was a number of years after Julie’s death that Mr. Jambois spoke to you? Correct.
You talked to your mom about this? Yes.
People would talk about this case? Yes.
Albee is trying to get Eric to say that his information came from other adults. Maybe some, but there are some things I remember.
This kid is holding up pretty well on the stand.
Laura Schoor, Eric's mom on the stand. Laura knew Julie for several years. She saw Julie probably twice a month.
Julie enjoyed David at Eric’s house and Eric going to the Jensen house.
In 1998, Laura saw Julie interact with the boys. She would smile, she was kind.
Julie and Laura were involved in the PTA.
Did your son Eric talk to you about a conversation with David regarding Julie’s health? Yes, on Friday before school, the day that Julie died.
On Dec. 2nd was Eric supposed to go to the Jensen’s’. Yes, but David called and asked to come to my house. Was that how changes were made? No I thought it was odd because it was usually Julie and I.
In November, Julie told Laura about looking for a job. She was concerned about Douglas going to daycare.
Was Julie happy or unhappy about getting a job? I don’t recall.
Julie was unhappy about Douglas in daycare because she wanted to be home with him.
After Julie’s death, you spoke to Det. Ratzburg? Yes.
Did you tell him that Eric had the conversation with David? I probably did.
Did you tell Det. Ratzburg, you told him about the conversation that Eric had and it was on Wednesday or Thursday. I don't recall.
Did Julie attend the November PTA meeting? I don't know.
State calls Joseph Mangi, Superintendent of Kenosha Unified Schools.
In November of 1998 did you meet Julie Jensen? Yes. I interviewed her for a part-time secretarial job.
Did she have a resume? Yes, she did.
Did Mrs. Jensen seem qualified for the position? Yes, she did.
Were there computers in the office? No.
Did Mrs. Jensen say she was proficient in computers? No.
She was a good person, worked well with children and had good skills.
He called the home to offer the job. Mark answered the call. He said she's asleep, she's going to be asleep for a long time and he laughed! OMG!
The call was made on a weekday during school hours, November 30 or later.
After making the call, did you find Julie had died? Within a day or two.
Did you tell anyone about the conversation with Mark? Yes, I remember I was disconcerted and was directed to the Pleasant Prairie PD.
Why did you call PD? I felt strange about the call and felt the police should know.
That call to police was within a few weeks of Julie’s death? It would have been within the week.
Did Julie tell you she really didn’t want to work? No.
How did you learn Julie passed away? Through neighbors.
Was this on a weekend? It was prior to it being in the paper, Friday. I knew it was before it was in the paper.
You never met Mark Jensen or knew his voice or if he had a nervous laugh? No.
The laugh that you heard, did it sound like a nervous laugh? No.
He didn’t identify himself by name? I assumed it was Mr. Jensen, I don’t recall?
State calls Diane Labanowski, the Bradford HS nurse. She knows Mr. Mangi and is his neighbor.
Did you have a conversation about Julie? It occurred the day after Julie died. She remembers that Julie had died and Joe was upset and he told me about a phone call to offer Julie the job and he was told by Mark that she was sleeping and would be sleeping all day and then he laughed. Mangi was upset that Julie had died as well as the phone call.
What time of day was the call Mr. Mangi made? In the morning.
Dr. Mainland back on the stand for some more torture!
Albee continues asking Dr. Mainland about specific lines in the interview between Ratzburg and Jensen.
There are mentions of pillow, getting on top of her, bruises on buttocks.
Mark mentions she fell and hit head when getting up to use bathroom.
Pictures of nose, again pillow over her head.
This is all going very, very fast and I can't think fast enough.
Ratzburg mentions that her nose had to have been pushed hard to get in that position.
All of these rapid quotes from the document are meant to show that IF Mark Jensen had this document in his cell, Dillard COULD have stolen them and read them to make up his story.
Jambois objects that much of what is being read has nothing to do with what Albee wants to prove.
Judge - Sustains the objection!
Albee keeps reading and Dr. Mainland says, "yes," he said that.
The report talks about head being pushed, nose being indented, neck, and chest.
Dr. Mainland agrees.
Albee keeps reading rapidly...... nose being too far into pillow... arm underneath....
There are a number of questions by Ratzburg about the nose being pushed into pillow, pressure on chest and neck... all contained in Aaron Dillards statement... Yes to all.
Dr. Chambliss report: nose is midline.
Mainland: automatic response w/o thinking
Why doesn't Dr. Chambliss consider that in his report?
Mainland: he didn't consider it important, it could have gone back, no severe injury. Only way it might stay that way... bones being broken or it may have went back that way.
The cartilage in the nose is pliant? When they're alive!
Dr. Mainland doesn't know all the variables.
If someone's dying it could stay in that position, wouldn't need considerable "mashing." NO!
Discussion of Julie's "sleeping" position and rib bruised.
It could be post-mortem artifact.
Other things... Dr. Mainland didn't think them plausible.
She says they take things in context.
Albee suggests other ways she could have had that damage...
The only specific info comes from "that character' Aaron Dillard. (Albee)
Albee infers the chain of custody vis-à-vis the gastric contents is incomplete.
Dr. Mainland is checking her paperwork. Mr. Albee invites her to spend the evening finding it!
Whew! What a day.
As always, thank you ritanita!!!!